Black moves 1. d5 in ruy lopez

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Pank2605
Hi guys, I am trying to learn ruy Lopez and its many variations. What does white do if black moves d5 instead of e5 in the first move?
ThrillerFan

Well, for move 2, about White's only legitimate choice at an advantage is to take it, but that said, you can't just learn the Ruy Lopez and consider yourself done.  If you are playing 1.e4 as White, and clearly playing 2.Nf3 if Black plays 1...e5, you have to learn the following:

Ruy Lopez - A given

Petroff's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6)

Philidor's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 or 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7)

Sicilian Defense (1.e4 c5)

Caro-Kann Defense (1.e4 c6)

French Defense (1.e4 e6)

Pirc Defense (1.e4 d6)

Modern Defense (1.e4 g6)

Nimzovich's Defense (1.e4 Nc6)

Alekhine's Defense (1.e4 Nf6)

Scandinaivan Defense (1.e4 d5)

 

And then also some weird offbeat garbage.  And you can't just assume 2.Nf3 is any good.  It's actually only best against 1...e5 or 1...c5, and an interesting response to 1...Nc6.  Otherwise, it's mainly garbage against the rest of them, and outright loses a pawn against the last two listed above!

Pulpofeira
jindalpankaj escribió:
Hi guys, I am trying to learn ruy Lopez and its many variations. What does white do if black moves d5 instead of e5 in the first move?

Playing a Scandinavian instead of a Ruy López.

Pank2605

ThrillerFan wrote:

Well, for move 2, about White's only legitimate choice at an advantage is to take it, but that said, you can't just learn the Ruy Lopez and consider yourself done.  If you are playing 1.e4 as White, and clearly playing 2.Nf3 if Black plays 1...e5, you have to learn the following:

Ruy Lopez - A given

Petroff's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6)

Philidor's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 or 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7)

Sicilian Defense (1.e4 c5)

Caro-Kann Defense (1.e4 c6)

French Defense (1.e4 e6)

Pirc Defense (1.e4 d6)

Modern Defense (1.e4 g6)

Nimzovich's Defense (1.e4 Nc6)

Alekhine's Defense (1.e4 Nf6)

Scandinaivan Defense (1.e4 d5)

 

And then also some weird offbeat garbage.  And you can't just assume 2.Nf3 is any good.  It's actually only best against 1...e5 or 1...c5, and an interesting response to 1...Nc6.  Otherwise, it's mainly garbage against the rest of them, and outright loses a pawn against the last two listed above!

Thank you for the comprehensive answer. this helps a lot.

Dark_Army
ThrillerFan wrote:

Well, for move 2, about White's only legitimate choice at an advantage is to take it, but that said, you can't just learn the Ruy Lopez and consider yourself done.  If you are playing 1.e4 as White, and clearly playing 2.Nf3 if Black plays 1...e5, you have to learn the following:

Ruy Lopez - A given

Petroff's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6)

Philidor's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 or 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7)

Sicilian Defense (1.e4 c5)

Caro-Kann Defense (1.e4 c6)

French Defense (1.e4 e6)

Pirc Defense (1.e4 d6)

Modern Defense (1.e4 g6)

Nimzovich's Defense (1.e4 Nc6)

Alekhine's Defense (1.e4 Nf6)

Scandinaivan Defense (1.e4 d5)

 

And then also some weird offbeat garbage.  And you can't just assume 2.Nf3 is any good.  It's actually only best against 1...e5 or 1...c5, and an interesting response to 1...Nc6.  Otherwise, it's mainly garbage against the rest of them, and outright loses a pawn against the last two listed above!

So, after 1.e4, e5 2.Nf3 you must learn the French, Sicilian and a few other that you've listed there?

chesster3145

No. You only get the position after 2. Nf3 if Black plays 1... e5. You have to know something about the rest of Black's legitimate defences to 1. e4 too.

ThrillerFan
chesster3145 wrote:

No. You only get the position after 2. Nf3 if Black plays 1... e5. You have to know something about the rest of Black's legitimate defences to 1. e4 too.

Exactly!  For example, I play at a chess club on Tuesday nights, and we play 1 rated game a week at time control G/75, Inc/15.  I am "due" for Black.  Doesn't mean I'll get Black.

But anyway, if I were to face 1.e4 as Black tonight, depending on who I face, I'll either respond 1...e6, 1...c6, 1...c5, or 1...g6.  Notice that none of those are 1...e5.

So like he said, you will have to face other first move responses by Black!  No guarantee that Black plays 1...e5, or ...e5 at all at any point for that matter!

advancededitingtool1
ThrillerFan wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:

No. You only get the position after 2. Nf3 if Black plays 1... e5. You have to know something about the rest of Black's legitimate defences to 1. e4 too.

Exactly!  For example, I play at a chess club on Tuesday nights, and we play 1 rated game a week at time control G/75, Inc/15.  I am "due" for Black.  Doesn't mean I'll get Black.

But anyway, if I were to face 1.e4 as Black tonight, depending on who I face, I'll either respond 1...e6, 1...c6, 1...c5, or 1...g6.  Notice that none of those are 1...e5.

So like he said, you will have to face other first move responses by Black!  No guarantee that Black plays 1...e5, or ...e5 at all at any point for that matter!

But anyway, you will notice, the sooner the better, that nobody understands a single stinking word that comes out of your mouth.

Henson_Chess

maybe op means e4 instead of ruy lopez?

Dark_Army
chesster3145 wrote:

No. You only get the position after 2. Nf3 if Black plays 1... e5. You have to know something about the rest of Black's legitimate defences to 1. e4 too.

Yes exactly. But I was just pointing out that he suggests all those openings AFTER black has responded with e5

chesster3145

@leklerk1:

Right. That's why ThrillerFan is a USCF Expert and you're not.

advancededitingtool1
chesster3145 wrote:

@leklerk1:

Right. That's why ThrillerFan is a USCF Expert and you're not.

You can always bet your life as someone else did before, he is still alive, but it doesn't come close anymore.  1.d5 is Ruy Lopez? What's 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 then? Apart that one can not play 1.d5 in the first place. I should have probably said one's own stinking mouth, since it's not referring specifically to anyone, but more like to everyone in here, apparently. It stands for drunk by the way and drunk stands for talking nonsense.

chesster3145

What ThrillerFan is absolutely correct in saying is that you can play the Ruy Lopez all you want, but only after 1... e5 2. Nf3 Nc6. You can't play a Ruy Lopez after 1... d5, 1... c5, or any other defense to 1. e4.

You also can't play a Ruy Lopez after 2... Nf6 or 2... d6.

Long story short, Black gets to choose the opening just as much as White does.

advancededitingtool1

long story short you will be remembered as a bunch of NZS

chesster3145

The BS is strong in this one...

tmkroll

1...d5 in the Ruy Lopez is not very good but it can be tricky. Note that White can't actually win a piece:

:p



Pank2605
12Knaves wrote:

maybe op means e4 instead of ruy lopez?

If white starts with e4 planning to play a Ruy Lopez opening, and black does not respond with e5, as would have been the case in a "normal" Ruy Lopez, but instead plays d5, what does white do then? This is what I meant. Does 1. e4 d5 turn it into something that can not be called Ruy Lopez?

poucin

Ruy Lopez is the opening called after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5.

There are many other ways to play for both sides as most told you...

tmkroll

Sorry, I thought your question was asked and answered and there was no harm in my joke (though I don't think it's bad to be aware of the line I put in case Black does try that dubious line.) Your meaning was pretty clear.