There's not that much wrong with those moves. It's just a bit committal, advancing the b pawn can weaken your queenside. They are normally played after the e pawn is supported.
Black-What to play against Giuoco Piano/Ruy Lopez?
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Nevermind my PS, I just looked at your profile, and it clearly sadi Santorini. So yeah.
Scottrf wrote:
There's not that much wrong with those moves. It's just a bit committal, advancing the b pawn can weaken your queenside. They are normally played after the e pawn is supported.
Do you have any games with these moves?
As far as the Ruy Lopez is concerned you'd probably be better off trying to play it without looking at any theory at all. Play whatever makes sense to you for a few games, annotate them and only then look at theory. This way you'll have an easier time figuring out how you want to play.
At the rate you're going in now you'll end up in positions that you won't be able to play and your time will just be wasted.
Mar 28, 2014
0
#26
How about 2...Nf6 (known as Petrov's Defense, Petroff's Defense, Russian Game, or Russian Defense)? Just know that after 3.Nxe5, 3...Nxe4 is considered to be a mistake. 3...d6 is the main move.
Good point, Eric. Petrov is good because then you dont have to know two seperate defenses against and italian and spanish.. and you still get to play 1. ... e5 as recommended! That's my reasoning in taking it up anyway, here's a collection of petrov games i want to go over: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection?cid=1011018
Mar 28, 2014
0
#28
Against the Ruy I really like the Archangel Defense (or similar name; Russian spelling). Play an early ...b5 and then finachetto ...Bb7. I like the dark-square Bishop (King Bishop) deployed to c5, often later retreated to b6 or a7 - this often gives a strong two Bishops for Black.
Unleash_the_Queens asked, paraphrase:
Why don't people attack Bishop with a *and* b pawns against the Ruy Lopez:
According to my book they do, and should, maybe... it's certainly a main line move. My book also trots out the line that it weakens black's Q side, but as always doesn't say why! I mean the pawns are advancing and really worrying the B, that looks strong to me! Also, aren't such advanced pawns useful in the end game? They are that bit closer to being Queens!
And it's not an empty threat, there is something called "the Noah's ark trap" in which the Bishop gets trapped and taken by the pawns. To get round this, you have to move a3 or c3 to give B an escape, if the pawns start to look really menacing. For some reason I tend to move a3, but is c3 better?
I'm getting very tempted to play the exchange variation as white, which was supposedly a favourite of Fischer in his dotage. There are so many lines, and so much messing about, in the non-exchange variation that I find it difficult to get my head around it.
EricSlusser wrote:
How about 2...Nf6 (known as Petrov's Defense, Petroff's Defense, Russian Game, or Russian Defense)? Just know that after 3.Nxe5, 3...Nxe4 is considered to be a mistake. 3...d6 is the main move.
Yeah, Petrov is quite nice, but I meant what to play after white has already played Bc4/b5.
BackTo1200OrBust wrote:
Unleash_the_Queens asked, paraphrase:
Why don't people attack Bishop with a *and* b pawns against the Ruy Lopez:
According to my book they do, and should, maybe... it's certainly a main line move. My book also trots out the line that it weakens black's Q side, but as always doesn't say why! I mean the pawns are advancing and really worrying the B, that looks strong to me! Also, aren't such advanced pawns useful in the end game? They are that bit closer to being Queens!
And it's not an empty threat, there is something called "the Noah's ark trap" in which the Bishop gets trapped and taken by the pawns. To get round this, you have to move a3 or c3 to give B an escape, if the pawns start to look really menacing. For some reason I tend to move a3, but is c3 better?
I'm getting very tempted to play the exchange variation as white, which was supposedly a favourite of Fischer in his dotage. There are so many lines, and so much messing about, in the non-exchange variation that I find it difficult to get my head around it.
That is exactly why I thought the a and b pawn attack to the bishop is very strong. Sure it weakens the queenside, but I think it is not that bad.
Mar 29, 2014
0
#32
TitanCG wrote:
As far as the Ruy Lopez is concerned you'd probably be better off trying to play it without looking at any theory at all. Play whatever makes sense to you for a few games, annotate them and only then look at theory. This way you'll have an easier time figuring out how you want to play.
At the rate you're going in now you'll end up in positions that you won't be able to play and your time will just be wasted.
Excellent advice for any opening query, imo.
hi
Maybe playing the jaenisch gambit when playing against the Ruy Lopez. It is kinda risky but can be very advantageous to black if played correctly
As to the question why they don’t play b5 immediately and the role of the Bishop on b3 being „harassed“ by the black pawns.
An early b5 is certainly possible but this move is usually played a bit later. As White have withdrawn their bishop to a4 they indicated that they would not take on c6 (although they have played it occasionally).
4. .. b5 is the Norwegian variation and its main point is to hunt down the white bishop on with 5…Na5. Which also points to an answer regarding that piece‘s worth. The bishop on b3 (or later c2) doesn’t really feel harassed by the pawns but is usually a very important piece for white’s plans. The drawback of this early black expansion and trade is development, something that White may try to exploit with 5.Nc3 (Grandelius‘ recommendation in his Chessable course).
But unless you want to play this particular variation then you can simply wait as is cuts down white‘s possibilities and Black has to develop at some point anyhow.
As to the question whether the pawn on b5 is strong or weak. It’s strong in the sense that generally in many variations black wants to make progress on the queen side and this pawn plays an important role in that.
That said after white plays a4 b5 often becomes a tender square. And if you play b4 (which black often does) White can try to exploit the nice square c4.
The Ruy is a very delicate opening which tons of subtleties. Quite difficult to master but if you like complex games with a full board and play on both wings it’s quite fun.
An early b5 is certainly possible but this move is usually played a bit later. As White have withdrawn their bishop to a4 they indicated that they would not take on c6 (although they have played it occasionally).
4. .. b5 is the Norwegian variation and its main point is to hunt down the white bishop on with 5…Na5. Which also points to an answer regarding that piece‘s worth. The bishop on b3 (or later c2) doesn’t really feel harassed by the pawns but is usually a very important piece for white’s plans. The drawback of this early black expansion and trade is development, something that White may try to exploit with 5.Nc3 (Grandelius‘ recommendation in his Chessable course).
But unless you want to play this particular variation then you can simply wait as is cuts down white‘s possibilities and Black has to develop at some point anyhow.
As to the question whether the pawn on b5 is strong or weak. It’s strong in the sense that generally in many variations black wants to make progress on the queen side and this pawn plays an important role in that.
That said after white plays a4 b5 often becomes a tender square. And if you play b4 (which black often does) White can try to exploit the nice square c4.
The Ruy is a very delicate opening which tons of subtleties. Quite difficult to master but if you like complex games with a full board and play on both wings it’s quite fun.
Well, I don't know what is going on here, but anyway, I have a question:
Most people as black play this against the Ruy Lopez:
PS: Pfren, in which place of Greece do you leave? Judging from your name, I would say Mani.