The Queen's Indian is sounder but the Bogo far less known with some weird sidelines which might catch White unawares... Both are not exactly ideal to play for a win as Black though.
Bogo Indian or Queen's Indian Defense
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frozenwater wrote:
Which of these two openings is better for Black and gives him better winning chances? and why do people choose to play one over the other:
Bogo Indian:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Bb4+
Queen's Indian
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6
The opening serves 1 purpose. To get to a playable middlegame.
The bogo is simpler and less theory heavy. Both are 100% sound. Your choice.
Don't forget the option of playing 3...c5 and going for a Modern Benoni when white can no longer play f4 and Bb5+ (the Taimanov Attack).
taffy76 wrote:
Don't forget the option of playing 3...c5 and going for a Modern Benoni when white can no longer play f4 and Bb5+ (the Taimanov Attack).
Also a QGD Ragozin, etc. Choices.
what to play against the queens indian?
skotheim2 wrote:
what to play against the queens indian?
Petrosian's 4 a3 !? 
i did in one game and didnt follow up good moves so it was a draw, I need some videos on it
i like the bogo
it sounds better
The December 2015 issue of Chess lists the top twenty openings compiled from a list of 4737 October games where both players were rated over 2400 Elo. One can not take position on this list too seriously because it is greatly influenced by how the openings are grouped. For example, all the Retis are grouped together, while English is separated into 1 ... c5, 1 ... e5, etc. Nevertheless, for what it is worth, the list reports 224 King's Indians, 183 Slavs, 165 Caro Kanns, 153 Nimzo-Indians, 145 1 ... c5 Englishes, 144 Queen's Indians, 125 1 ... e5 Englishes, 122 Kan Sicilians, 113 Declined Queen's Gambits, 110 1 ... Nf6 Englishes, 106 Ruy Lopez Berlin Defences, 99 Najdorf Sicilians, 91 Classical Gruenfelds, and 77 Taimanov Sicilians. Apparently, no Bogo Indian category made the top twenty.
I do not trust the Bogo Indian.
If I had to chose between the 2.
I would prefer the QID
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
I do not trust the Bogo Indian.
If I had to chose between the 2.
I would prefer the QID
Nobody cares, sir.
Are you a Carlsen analyst, or something?
pfren wrote:
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
I do not trust the Bogo Indian.
If I had to chose between the 2.
I would prefer the QID
Nobody cares, sir.
Are you a Carlsen analyst, or something?
The reason I do not trust the Bogo-Indian Defense is because 4.Bd2 is not forced.
White can play 4.Nd2
The 4.Nd2 line scares me.
Lasker1900 wrote:
The 4.Nbd2 lines do seem a bit more demanding, but Blck seems to be holding his own, Some players love the Kings Indian, where the computer is delighted with Whte's plus, but there is a tremendous amount of complexity and counterplay. My hat;s off to them!
Indeed, I wonder how they are surviving.
I will explain
However, my explaination will require the use of another line.
In the below position the following moves lead to the Nimzo Indian.
In the Nimzo Indian one of blacks motif plans is to give up the dark bishop inflicting pawn structure damage.
Once they do they than proceed to set up a dark pawn campaign.
They start to place all the remaining black pawns on dark squares to compensate for the loss of the Dark bishop.
Obviously this plan/idea wasn't one I made or came up with.
Aron Nimzowitsch came up with this idea when he made the line etc.
So this plan has been around for years.
In the end black agrues they don't need the bishop pair because they have other benefit's in the position.
Black has better pawn structure, White has double pawns, and Black can try and target the pawns.
Long story short black is basically giving up the bishop pair for something in exchange.
However, the reason I do not like the Bogo-Indian is because I feel black is not gaining anything in some lines.
Some people have decided to avoid playing against the Nimzo-Indian.
For better or for worse alot of high level peeps don't like playing against the Nimzo.
Some still do, but others refuse.
As it turns out databases show the move 3.Nc3 has lost its popularity.
They feel like avoiding the Nimzo.
Thus, instead of playing 3.Nc3 one of the ways to avoid the Nimzo is by playing 3.Nf3.
Which looks like the below position.
The problem with the above position is I feel black's Bishop to b4 move doesn't have the same effect as it once did.
The reason why I believe this is because after 3...Bb4+
White doesn't have to play 4.Nc3 they can play 4.Bd2 or 4.Nd2.
Now if I played 3...Bb4+ and my opponents responded with 4.Nc3 or 4.Bd2 I would be happy.
For example:
In the 4.Nc3 line
The position tranposes back into the Nimzo-Indian.
To copy what I said before:
In the Nimzo-Indian black is basically giving up the bishop pair for something in exchange.
Which I think is fine.
In the 4.Bd2 line
In the above position.
I like black's position as well.
If everyone played it this way I would play the Bogo-Indian.
Again black has tryed alot of different moves in the above position.
4...Qe7, 4...a5, 4...Be7 or 4...c5
Out of all the moves I like the move 4...Bd2+ Exchange Variation
Some people think its boring and dull.
I think black's position is completely fine.
When you think about it what has happened?
Black has lost the bishop pair!
However, White has lost the bishop pair as well!
A bishop trade is all that has happened.
Both sides forteit the bishop pair!
Both sides have nice pawn structure!
So I think this position is more than likely equal.
As it turns out this position does have a high draw rate.
Which makes me think it can't be to bad.
In the 4.Nd2 line
Now something is different isn't it?
If black trades the bishop in this scenerio he gives up the bishop pair.
However, what has he gained?
Against 4.Nc3 Black trades it to mess up White's pawn structure and to play against a target.
Against 4.Bd2 Black trades it for a even trade! You could agrue black needed to move the bishop to castle so black moved the bishop in a forcing way.
Against 4.Nd2 Black trades it for?
I simply don't know the answer to those 2 question's in blue text.
I think the trade is for nothing.
Like a mindless trade to cause an imbalance for no reason.
It reminds me of something a little kid would do.
They usually would say something like " Hey Mommy look I took his knight with my bishop!"
The clueless mother often responds with " Good job baby!"
For all she knows her son has been playing checkers with knights and bishops this whole time.
The funny part is the databases!
When you look at them it shows white with like a crushing percentage.
For example:
I will show you a normal position in the 4.Nd2 line.
I will use the black move 4...0-0
If you look at the winning percentages in that position.
The move 5...Bxd2+ in the above position has been giving white a 43.8% win rate vs black with a 19.8% win rate.
They are giving up the bishop pair for no reason and by those figures they are getting slaugthered.
Here comes the funny part!
The funny part is it seems like the Title players have figured this out!
It seems as if they have concluded plan A sucks.
So they have come up with a plan B!
Plan B is to retreat the bishop with 5...Be7.
They retreat the bishop and say " We played this check to displace the white forces".
I can't help but to laugh.
Really?
The Wonderful Plan B displacing the white forces!
When plan A goes sour and you have nothing but plan B and plan B sounds bad you know there is something wrong.
Than the worse part is you can't even talk to Bogo-Indian player.
They are crazy.
I had a Bogo-Indian player tell me they wasn't doing Plan A or B.
I was like what are you doing than?
They said the reason they are playing the Bb4+ is so there opponent knows that they are not alone in this game.
An that they are watching the white king.
Than he did the finger motion below.
You can't even talk to these types of players.
They are unreasonable.
What kind of strategy is that?
It is like a beginner strategy.
I try to tell them this what do they respond with?
I am checking him so he knows I am there!
When he plays against me he better bring his A game because my check is putting him on notice!
All you can say is OK Buddy!
Than you simply walk away.
X_PLAYER _J_X Dude... i didnt realize how long your post was, so i almost stopped reading b/c i should be studying for an exam instead of reading stuff on openings. Thankfully, i decided to skim down to the bottom. When you started talking about black players using the Bb4+ to "put the other guy on notice" and followed it up w/ the DeNiro pic I almost died laughing!
X_PLAYER_JX One of these days the internet is going to run out of space because of you
Dec 11, 2015
0
#18
You know that plan B has you call it, 5a3 Be7 has been played in recent candidate tournament? Also 4....b6 is playable too, when black has has much conpensation for two bishops has in the Qc2 nimzo.
TwoMove wrote:
You know that plan B has you call it, 5a3 Be7 has been played in recent candidate tournament? Also 4....b6 is playable too, when black has has much conpensation for two bishops has in the Qc2 nimzo.
Nice!
Who won the game white or black?
Dec 11, 2015
0
#20
Gelfand v Radjabov round 1 candidates 2013, the day of the bogos
http://www.chess.com/news/candidates-tournament-round-1-7776
Which of these two openings is better for Black and gives him better winning chances? and why do people choose to play one over the other:
Bogo Indian:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Bb4+
Queen's Indian
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6