Breyer, Marshall or Berlin Wall?

I prefer Capablanca to Fischer, but just a matter of taste I guess.

AAAHHHH  HAAAAAA!

Finally the truth comes out!

Thank you very much.

You say I don't listen.

However, your statement acknowledges that you agree with me!!!

Pfren said "Black is doing well".

I said so what White is doing well too!

Than I was insulted!

I gave example diagrams showing how white is doing fine!

Than I was insulted again!

Pfren than started giving out names to people who play the black side.

I said so what title players play the white side as well!

Than I was insulted again with mama jokes!

And than people have the nerve to attack me and say " I need to listen to title players?"

When they themselves believe white is FINE here!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This matter could of ended years ago!

However, No Pfren doesn't want to acknowledge white is doing FINE here!

Do you know why??????

Do you know why?????????

Because it pains Pfren to admit that I am right!

How foolish would Pfren look to say the X_patzer moron is right!!

Because I am right!

Here are some games.

Notice the players who are playing white!

Veselin Topalov a World Champion.

In fact Veselin Topalov even won in this variation before as white in a Rapid game if I am not mistaken.

No one said that White wasn't fine. If White is clinging to "being fine" out of the opening, it clearly hasn't gone all that well for him.

So, what do your games prove? Simply that Black has a good game.

Toma could improve with 19...Qb8, played in a couple of recent games, whet Black is just fine- and also Black can play 15.a4 Rae8! to be able to meet 16.d4 with 16...c4.

Can you say what is wrong with Black's game? obviously not, because 1. Black is completely fine, and 2.you don't understand a thing there.

Go back to  your colored arrows and stupid comments like "Black is fine, because if he wasn't then it would stand badly" (add some capitals, bolds and exclamation marks here, so some dumb people could believe you have said something important- duh!).

Saying white has no advantage doesn't mean that white is lost.

Actually the whole story reminds me of a chess seminar in Moscow, many years ago. GM Grivas has written a book about it (one of his first). A poor translator who was hired to translate the lecturer from Russian to Greek said at some point "...and here white stands well, but black stands better", and everybody laughed his ass off.

One of the best ways to understand the Spanish Marshall is to study the games of Michael Adams. He demonstrates both why it's probably a draw with best play as Black, and also how to maximise white's chances as White.

Many people believe if both sides white & black play perfectly the game should end in a draw.

A chess game starts with equal material.

If every thing is played perfectly many believe the game should end equally.

I.E  Draw!

Players playing the white side try to hold the opening move advantage as long as possible.

However, in the end ultimately many acknowledge that black can get an equal position if they play perfectly.

You state that white shouldn't cling to getting a fine position out of the opening.

The question which I ask you is the following:

If black plays perfectly how do you expect to avoid getting a fine equal-ish position as white?

The truth is you can't avoid it!

If Black plays well enough they will eventually get into a fine position.

As white you can try to maintain the advantage as long as possible.

However, eventually you will have to settle with a line that is fine/equal-ish!

The fact Pfren doesn't wish to acknowledge white is fine in this position.

May cause people to doubt the reliability of this line as white.

Which they shouldn't!

ChessConure doesn't want to play 8.c3 because he says it runs into 8...d5 Marshall Attack.

ChessConure doesn't want to play 8.h3 because he says it runs into 8...Bb7 this gambit line.

Well I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

Every move runs into something!

The only way to avoid running into something is to quit playing chess!

8.c3, 8.h3, 8.a4, 8.d3, & 8.d4

They all run into something!

Ultimately, you will have to ask yourself the question that many players ask!

Out of all the moves and continuations which you can run into which one annoys you the least?

Which one can you live with?

I personally have found my answer.

The answer I chose was 8.h3!

Which is why I maintain my stance on 8.h3 is a perfectly acceptable and fine continuation.

How about you?

Which poison did you pick?

All serious players who are willing to enter the Marshall as white are putting their hopes in the 12.d3 variation, where white returns the pawn to get something out of the bishop pair. However, I find it very hard to believe white can have something real- the vast majority of the games end in a draw.

Oh, and of course white can avoid all that (as well as several other Ruy major lines) by 6.d3 which is the current fashion at super-GM level (I mean... well, when Black does not play the Berlin).

Fuark the Marshall. Play the Owens defence and you win!

DO YOU SEE!!!!!!!!

Pfren wrote:

So, what do your games prove? Simply that Black has a good game.

DO YOU SEE!!!!!!!!

OOOOOOOOOO

Pfren is in sick DENIAL!!!!!

And I don't mean DA NILE in Egypt either!

This guy right here >>>>>>     Pfren

He doesn't even wish to acknowledge that white's position is fine here!

Pfren do you honestly believe we are suppose to trust your judgement over Veselin Topalov a World Champion!!!!!

This is outrageous!

Veselin Topalov played this position with the white pieces.

Do you honestly think white position is bad here?

Do you honestly think Topalov would play this position if white's position was terrible?

Why doesn't Pfren answer the simple questions!!!

I will tell you why he doesn't answer them!

Because he hates the fact that I am right and he is wrong!

I can't believe pfren continues to waste his time arguing with you...

Pfren is an Interntaional Master, I think he's due a bit more respect, even if you do disagree with him.

Those poor fish, Anand, Kramnik, MVL, Karjakin, Svidler... They all played 12.d4. They obviously aren't serious players. 

It's true, 12.d4 does have a large number of draws, but it's still played by people who I thought were serious players. 

Here's one game that almost qualifies as a miniature:

I agree that 12.d3 is a major alternative to 12.d4. But I think only correspondence players would consider the 12.d4 line to be dead.

WOW!

So your telling me that I am the disrespectful one?

Well Sir it seems to me that you have recently joined the party!

Let me fill you in!

Pfren has insulted:

• My chess understanding.

• My chess intelligence.

• He has insulted my user name.

• He has said slurs such as X_patzer.

• He has called me a moron.

• He has called me an idiot.

• He has done mama jokes.

• He has gone to other threads making snide comments directed at me.

• He has called me a X_Nobody.

All the while I have been standing up for a line which people play as white.

And you are telling me that I am the disrespectful one?

Frankly, I think I have handled the situation rather well.

I would love to hear insight from you as to how to handle the situation better?

"DO YOU SEE!!!!!!!!

OOOOOOOOOO

Pfren is in sick DENIAL!!!!!

And I don't mean DA NILE in Egypt either!"

Is this your idea of respect?

If you quote the entire quote.

You will see that I am being truthful!!

This is the entire quote with portions you left out!

DO YOU SEE!!!!!!!!

Pfren wrote:

So, what do your games prove? Simply that Black has a good game.

DO YOU SEE!!!!!!!!

OOOOOOOOOO

Pfren is in sick DENIAL!!!!!

And I don't mean DA NILE in Egypt either!

Which verifies the point I was making.

Pfren still has not acknowledged the white position here!

Ah, thanks for showing me the game by Stelios (former pupil of mine).

He should really take a closer look at correspondence games if he likes to play the Marshall- 22...Nb6 is much better than his 22...g4?! which just gives white what he wants.

However, I vaguely recall I've seen this position.

Yup, white has an advantage in this line. It's such a pity that it doesn't actually exist, though...

I don't think Black should be too worried about something, but after 26...Bf4! N things are crystal clear.

A small tip: Give your next Marshall lesson to someone else. OK?

Do you see that you moved the goal posts?

I didn't say whether White has an advantage. I believe the Marshall equalizes for Black. But I also believe that White can still try to win from the equal positions that arise after 12.d4. More to the point, so do GMs who play the position as white to win!

I agree that most elite GMs avoid the Marshall in favor of d3 Spanish lines that evolve into Breyer-esque maneuvering battles. But when White allows the Marshall, it's not a sign they want a draw. It's a sign they have an idea that may give them some room to fight for the win.

But again, you moved the goal posts by pretending that someone said White has an advantage. White merely needs a playable game with chances for both sides.