Can I win as black in the english?

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JRadis

What should I play against c4? The chessbase says that Nf3 is the best move but after that?

staggerlee

Have you checked out the opening explorer here on this site? 

JRadis

Yes but it does not explain why I should make the moves. Likes that since that even if you do one move in the wrong order you can still play it right and if your opponent does one move not from theory you know what to do.

likesforests

The critical replies are 1...e5 and 1...c5, because those force the game to remain in English lines and not transpose into something else. 1...e5 tends to be sharp. 1...c5 tends to be more positional. If you want to win and White is content with a draw, then I would probably aim for the King's English (...e5) for best chances.

If you feel confident with one of your d4 defenses, you might also try that against the English. Note, you can't force a Nimzo-Indian or QID.

JRadis

Ok, thanks but Im not that good in the kings english. I would like to learn though. What should you think about?

likesforests

JRadis, usually Black develops his knights and either aims for the pawn break ...d7-d5 or pressures the c3 knight with ...Bb4. A couple common lines go:

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 g3 Bb4

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Ng6 3.Bg2 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5

skwirlguts

Black can win pretty easily in the english. It slower for white and black can play an agreewssive king pawn opening that ussually will win the day.

JRadis
likesforests wrote:

JRadis, usually Black develops his knights and either aims for the pawn break ...d7-d5 or pressures the c3 knight with ...Bb4. A couple common lines go:

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 g3 Bb4

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Ng6 3.Bg2 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5


 In 1 nr 2 Dont you mean 2... Nf6?

And how should I stop the strong bishops line?

likesforests

Here's an recent game where I played Black against the King's English. White tried to prevent both ...Bb4 and ...d5 and played g3, but I eventually scored.

I handled the strong bishop by opposing it with my own bishop.

likesforests

JRadis> "And how should I stop the strong bishops line?"

You had better use your extra central space and open file to score a win. You said you were aiming to win against it. That involves taking risks! Both sides will have their plusses. If you don't want to take too many risks, then mimic your opponent with 1...c5, the Symmetric English. But that is more likely to end in a draw than 1...e5.

Niven42

According to the MCO, there's very few winning lines for Black in the English.  Most will have you down a pawn, or equal, with White having an advantage in space.  That is, until you get to the Keres variation of the Carls "Bremen" System, which is:

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3...

...when White tries to fianchetto king's-side.  This leads to better games for Black, but isn't something you can rely on your opponent to do.  You'll still have to be patient and wait for the game to open up.  Many of the so-called "ultra-symmetrical" openings offer good chances too, and are worth studying to find the gambits that lead to good tactical formations.  If all else fails, proceed as if this were a Sicilian with the colors reversed - i.e. you play the Black pieces as if you were the White side of the Sicilian.

likesforests

I usually play ...e5 against lower-rated players and ...c5 against higher-rated players. It's a toss-up against similarly-rated players.

musk

I've been learning and only playing the English for a year now....196 games and I've still won a higher percentage with black.......so yes you can definately win against the English !

I play C4...g2 opening  as advocated by Tony Kosten and note there's another post about a new dvd on this variation........will be getting it to fill in the blanks in Kosten's book.

KillaBeez

I never really deal with the English much.  Usually it transposes into other openings and even in the independent lines, Black has no trouble developing and usually gets a nice kingside initiative.

JRadis

Ok, my opponent tried to fianchetto on g3 very soon and I had big trubble getting my pices into the board. But you say that I shouldnt worry to much about that and try to play attack myself instead for defending myself.

I dont think english is that hard if the opponent dont fianchetto the bishop becouse then the game comes natrual. Though there is of course many traps I dont know about it get a bit like the italian opening and Im used to that so...

destroyedyourgame

I play the English a lot black or white . I am not a master. So I play the best moves that I see as possible if there is time.  Sometimes I win sometimes I lose.

Niven42

You've won 9 out of your last 10 games, and the 10th one was a draw!?  Tongue out  It's obvious that you have a good grasp of the tactical points... 

JRadis

Well, that statistic might not be all correct. Im a greeter so 5 or more of those games was against players who lost on time. And of course the most of the other games was won becouse thet my opponents did misstaces. 

 

1c4 c5 and then what what to think about?