Can the dutch easily be refuted?

Sort:
darkunorthodox88
NervesofButter wrote:

A friend that is a Life Master and IMO one of the best chess coaches in the country has played 1.f4 for what seems like forever.

aigner? dude is a legend. played him a few times and he was tactically a monster.

darkunorthodox88
Kowarenai wrote:
dpnorman wrote:
Kowarenai wrote:
dpnorman wrote:

I don’t think the absence of Dutch games in the World Championships is *at all* evidence of it being refuted. It just means maybe other openings are safer, especially in a setting where the most common approach is trying to win with white and hold with black.

in your opinion and experience is the dutch a somewhat good and consistent way or combatting against d4 and trying to reach the National Master title? answer is appreciated

I am aware of some people who have made master with the Dutch in their repertoire. So, I guess. But I haven’t played it as black myself OTB.

ah alright but with that awareness, would you say its possible for anyone in the 2000-2150 range to use the dutch and be able to achieve NM? or due to the risky play, it will be inconsistent?

provided an opening is not outright refuted (like the latvian) or just terribly worse with trivial levels of prep at master level, you can get away with a lot. I became NM with 1.b4 as my main weapon for example, with stuff like 1.e4 b6 and 1.d4 nc6 as black.  

The reason some openings are so rare even at  IM- normal GM level, is not always due to objectivity but because even practitioners cant play them most of the time without inviting knockouts due to overprepped opponents. I would argue flexibility and richness is even more important than pure objectivity (within limits) in the repertoire of a master. This is why  creative masters tend to have broad repertoires to partially make up for the narrowness some of their pet lines tend to lead to against prepped opposition.

gik-tally

thought i replied.

i totally agree with whoever mentioned the staunton. it's super aggressive and totally ruins all of black's plans. that's a real nightmare for me. 

it also has super surprise value because it's soooooo rare. maybe 1:100.

darkunorthodox88

One thing i would recommend if you do play the dutch is, dont try to carelessly try to get a dutch out of  all non 1.e4 openings.

For example, this line is dubious. 1.nc3 f5 ?! 2.e4 fxe4 3.d3 fxd3 4.bxd3 nf6 5.bg4

its a from's gambit with white a move up (and a crucial one at that, in the from's, the development of the queen's knight is often an annoying tempo necessary to spend but doesnt usually help the attack directly). It may well be survivable but it is not pleasant at all.

here is a 12 move knock out fro


m yours truly from lichess i played yesterday. 

 

zone_chess

The Dutch seems refutable, but it isn't.
It's in fact pretty awesome if you know how to play it.
I have developed my own 1.d4 opening and can attest that the Dutch is possibly the strongest defense against it. Then again, if you don't know how to play it, you will more easily get holes in your system. The f7 square, for example.

MaetsNori

I don't play the Dutch, though, if you're looking for reassurance that it's playable, here are two high-level examples:

 

Example 1: Carlsen plays it against Caruana, and uses it to win. (These are two of the strongest human players to ever play the game):

 

Example 2: Alexander Schramm plays it, in the 31st International Correspondence Chess World Championship, against former ICCF World Champion Ron Langeveld (elite correspondence chess is generally regarded as being even stronger than engine chess, which would make the games top-notch):

 

So there are two examples of the Dutch being played at two of the highest levels in chess.