Caro-Kann 2.Nf3

I've played the Caro-Kann for a long time, and since I've started on Chess.com a few months ago have seen the King's Knight come out on the second move in more than one game.  I've continued ...d5, but I feel like I'm not getting as advantageous a position as I'd expect.  Any thoughts on strategy or handling this response?

Thanks, Adam 

I've played the Caro-Kann for many years, and one sentence stuck with me. You always play 2: d5.

In this case, 2: Nf3 isn't that bad a move, I think the primary drawback is that it is not very flexible. Of course white can play the system with Nf3/Nc3, or he can exchange on d5 and play d4. I don't think that 3: e5 is very good because of the strong reply ... Bg4.

What have you been running into after playing 2: ... d5

At the amateur level, I personally believe 2. Nf3 is played out of habit and exd5 is often played after because, aside from Nc3, it is the only move to continue with development (as d4 will follow.) However, I don't think this is dangerous as you're able to develop you're light square bishop actively on g4 with a good position, and white's presence in the center is no greater than yours.

That being said, and as ozzie said before me, always play 2...d5 and If 3. e5 or 3. exd5 then Bg4 at some point will give you a nice position. 3. Nc3 and 3. d4, 4. c4 are are opening lines with a little more bite, and if these are what is giving you trouble, then i would recommend looking up games involving using chess.com's game explorer as there should be plenty of games with them, and you could see how to handle them.

 Just remember, you're looking more for equality rather than an "advantageous position". 

There is a subtle trap I've noticed with 2: Nf3.

1: e4 c6
2: Nf3 d5
3: exd5 cxd5
4: d4 Nf6!

I don't think Nf3 is such a bad move to play for white's 4th move (most people play 2: d4), and I think 4: ... Bg4 is premature because of 5: c4 Of course white can play c4 anyway.

I wonder what Games Explorer has to say about this.

I'm a Caro-Kann lover too.

It's not a bad strategic idea for white, they can get to the Boleslavsky gambit.

After 1.e4 c6  2.Nf3 d5  3. Nc3 dxe4 I can transpose to 4.Nxe4 Nd7

Thanks to you all for your replies.  Nimzo33, you're comment about equalizing is good to remember.  I felt like I should be finding a great position, but what I ended up with was equality with a very defensible position and good counter-play when white pushed too hard.  I always enjoy Caro-Kann discussions. 

ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

There is a subtle trap I've noticed with 2: Nf3.

1: e4 c6
2: Nf3 d5
3: exd5 cxd5
4: d4 Nf6!

I don't think Nf3 is such a bad move to play for white's 4th move (most people play 2: d4), and I think 4: ... Bg4 is premature because of 5: c4 Of course white can play c4 anyway.

I wonder what Games Explorer has to say about this.

I don't see the trap you are talking about. I outlined your moves and c3 or Bd3 seem fine for white.

Black should not expect anything more than equality. The position is a queen's gambit exchange variation with black a tempo down. Not many people play the white side of the queen's gambit exchange variation, because black gets pretty easy play with his pieces, all stemming from the c8 bishop. Of course in all of those lines, white develops his c1 bishop before playing d3 (which is the equivalent of black playing ...Bg4 before playing ...e6). But simply developing this bishop to f5 or g4 does not get black an advantage. It just gets a reasonable position going into the middlegame, with a natural flow to the pieces.

In some sense, black is somewhat planless in this type of position, other than the minority attack mentioned above, because his plan so often is to "free" the c8 bishop, that when it starts the game already free, what are you supposed to do?

Hey folks. Im struggling to find a variation with 3.d4. I.e. 1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.d4 ... Does anyone know this line or where I could find something on it?

@ thepullcompulsion it`s Ulysses Gambit, you can search it on google.

There's at least one little trap to watch out for in the 2. Nf3 line.

The "normal" 2. d4 line sometimes continues with Black trading on e4 followed by playing Bf5:

The above diagram atfer whites third move is a bog standard 2 knights where black just plays Bg4  There is a video on this in the learning section.

     The line was popular in the 1960s with the likes of Tal.

Plan for black is to swap the Knight off on f3 with the Bishop, stick all the pawns on white squares and try and control the dark squares with the pieces, then when it safe start expanding on the queenside.

 White will try to open the position for the Two bishops, but it is not easy which is why the line is fairly rare these days

In the line that blueemu posted, 8. Qh5 is always given as best but it's worth noting that 8. Qf3 Nf6 9. Qb3 is just winning a clear pawn for white, and so this also is very good reason for black not to play this line.

However, 2. Nf3 and the Two Knights in general has a bit of a problem. It legitimizes black's move 4...Nf6 (i.e. 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6) because black gets to play ...Bg4, a move that white should never allow in the parallel lines where 2. d4 was played instead of Nf3 (especially after ...exf6). 

It also has the problem that black equalizes in all lines, but that's not a big problem, since equal positions are normal in chess and white opening advantage isn't too important for non-masters.

dffjo

If you don't play 2...d5 what will you play? 2...e5 is a bit risky.

This is where you lose me. GMs do play the Two Knights sometimes, and there's no problem with playing 2. Nf3 in that variation. The Two Knights is probably equal, but there are chances for GMs to find minor theoretical improvements and the theory is not too well developed. 

Openings don't have much to do with improvement. 

;For what it's worth, in Cyrus Lakdawala's very excellent, 400+ page, "The Caro-Kann: Move by Move" (c.2012), p.413, he writes [after 1 e4 c6]:

2 Nf3 d5 3 exd5 (3 Nc3 would take play back into the Two Knights [see details below])  3 ... cxd5 4 Ne5 which, although innocuous, was once the subject of a New in Chess 'SOS' article and has
been tried by the likes of Anand, Carlsen, Morozevich and Navara. After 4 ... Nf6 5 d4 Black
has:

b1} 5...g6 {this is a good time to utilize an idea borrowed from Chapter Nine on the Exchange
Variation) 6 Bb5+ (not so scary for us; this bishop later gets booted with ... a6}
6 ... Nbd7 7 O-O Bg7 8 Nf3 {White doesn't want to leave the knight too long on e5 and allow
a swap, but this move costs him time) 8 ... 0-0 9 Nc3 Nb8! (a clean solution; White wasted
time, so why not Black, who now clears the path for his light-squared bishop} 10 h3 a6 11
Bd3 Nc6 12 a3 Bf5! (see Chapter Nine for more details!} 13 Bxf5 gxf5 was M.Carlsen-A.
Morozevich, Nice (rapid} 2008.  Black looks good. He has prospects on the open g-file with
...Kh8 and ...Rg8, as well as a potential minority attack on the other side of the board.
b2} 5...Nc6, allowing the pin, is also quite playable: 6 Bb5 Bd7 7 Nxd7 (so White spent
three moves to remove Black's bad bishop!}  7...Qxd7 8 c3 e6 9 Nd2 Bd6 10 Nf3 O-O and
Black had equalized in D.Navara-Z.Izoria, Greek Team Championship 2005."

Detail on Lakdawala's Chapter on Two Knights, which he mentions when noting 1 e4 c6 2 Nf3 d5 3 Nc3:

Lakdawala's Two Knights example game is Fischer-Petrosian, Bled/Zagreb/Belgrade Candidates 1959 which Petrosian won and began: 1 e4 c6 2 Nc3 d5 3 Nf3 Bg4 4 h3 Bxf3 and Lakdawala writes:

"Question: You are a killjoy. Isn't 4...Bh5 a lot more fun ?
Answer: Carokannites frown upon fun in any way, shape or form when easy equality is ours
without high risk. The adventurous 4 ...Bh5 does admittedly look entertaining. However,
the stats suggest that just chopping on f3, where we relieve ourselves of our bad bishop, is
the simplest and best path. If 4 ...Bxf3 is good enough for top Caro experts like Karpov and
Dreev, then it's good enough for me !"

Fischer-Petrosian continued 5 Qxf3 Nf6 6 d3 e6 7 g3 where Lakdawala writes: "A move favoured by King's Indian specialists. Black's next move [7...Bb4!] proves that White does indeed g et a K I D, but a rather sour version. Today, most 2600+ players go for 7 Bd2. Black's choices:
a) 7 ...Nbd7 8 g4 (be aware of this Sicilian-style Keres Attack idea from White) 8 ... h6 9 Qg3 Bb4 10 O-O-O Bxc3!? (a daring pawn grab; Black can also go for the more positional 10 ... d4...
D.Mastrovasilis-D.Navara, Greek Team Championship 2011.
b) 7 ... Bb4 8 a3 Ba5 and now White prevented the coming bishop swap and lashed out
with 9 b4!? in E.Rozentalis-V.Iordachescu, French League 2011. After 9 ...Bb6 10 g3 a5 we
reach a normal reversed King's Indian position where White's queenside pawn moves can
only help Black.
c) 7 ... Be7 8 g4 Na6 (instructive: Epishin leaves d7 open for his f6-knight} 9 g5 Nd7 10
h4 Nb4!. Now White fell back with 11 Qd1 in E.Tate-V.Epishin, New York 1993, since he
didn't like the look of 11 O-O-O d4 12 Ne2 Nxa2+ 13 Kb1 Nb4 14 Nxd4 da5."
7 ... i.b4!

Not really. If you lose a game because of an opening, then just remember the game and don't make the same mistake next time. 

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. The Two Knights Caro is playable beyond mastsr level