Caro Kann Panov-Botvinnik attack

where is black's equality lie in both of these lines?

I only see one line.  Maybe I don't know how to use the diagram?   white is attacking (but it doesn't see like a strong attack.)black is defending, and black chose to go down this defensive path. If black can hold off the attack he might gain one of his own.  It's hard to see why white should have any advantage here.  Granted I would prefer white, but that is because I have an attackers mind set, a defensive person would prefer black and only that type of person could keep this game equal.

Well, the line that you show here sucks.  Try this instead of 9...Bxc3?

9...0-0!

10. Bxc6 bxc6

11. 0-0 Bxc3

12. Bxc3 Nxc3

13. Qxc3 Ne2+

14. Kh1 Qd5! 

wow, ananxagoras is right again.

Yeah. Capturing the Knight at c3 without castling first is quite risky for Black.

anaxagoras wrote:

Well, the line that you show here sucks.  Try this instead of 9...Bxc3?

9...0-0!

10. Bxc6 bxc6

11. 0-0 Bxc3

12. Bxc3 Nxc3

13. Qxc3 Ne2+

14. Kh1 Qd5! 

---

 

I assume this is the variation you mean (12. bxc3 instead of Bxc3, 13. Qxc6 instead of 13. Qxc3)

 

Since no one seems to see the second line, here it is again.  I wish to know where the equality lies. 

errr yeah, Qxc3 being impossible.  Thanx for the correction.

In your second line, Black's chances consist in White's weakened pawn structure, i.e. his hanging pawns at d4 and c3 (especially the pawn at c3).  Of course, Black's goal is to make his knights stronger than White's bishops, or to exchange his light-squared bishop for white's.  For this reason, after White's 12 0-0, Black needs to develop a plan around the domination of d5 and c4, and 12...b6 serves this purpose nicely.  then...

13 Re1 (to dominate e5)... Bb7

14 Bb3 Rfd8

15 Bc2 Rac8

16 Bb2 b5!...do you see why? 

thats way too easy 17.  Qxb5?? Bxf3 18. gxf3 Rb8 and Rxb2

Another question about this opening.  Are there any other lines in the panov bottvinnik attack need to be studied in order to get out of the opening with equality more or less.  I don't know of any other challenging lines, but then again, I could be wrong about that.

It's risky because at the end of the line I give above, white can play Ba3 and essentially prevent black from castling because of Bxc6 bxc6 and Bxe7 winning the c6 pawn or if queen or knight takes then Bishop takes the f8 rook.  Then there is not much to do about the threats of c4 and d5 hammering down on the open king.

Actually, the position is not totally broken for black, it's just very hard to win in that situation.  Ideally in the panov botvinnik, white has to take real risks to win, where black can get through the attack, he will be better.  In this case, however, even if the queens were to come off the board somehow, the game would still be better for white because black will have trouble with development.  I mean that my post above is incorrect about winning the c-pawn and that it would probably be better for black after something like Rfc8, but white is not forced to make those trades and black is still on edge just trying to defend against white's threats. 

🤛