but d5 then you build up towards e4 with like d3 Qe1 Nd2, etc? i dont rlly know, ive started looking into it only yesterday, altho ive played it against the french a few times
THIS OPENING BEATS MAGNUS EVERY TIME (CONFIRMED)
It is difficult to play the KIA against e5, but you can always do what Dubov did against Nakamura in the Lindores Abbey Rapid Challenge. e4 Nc3 g3 Bg2 and you can start a pretty powerful attack with f4 in the future. I would highly recommend checking out that game. It's different from the KIA in that you can sometimes get a very open position, but the Bishop on g2 and the ideas of f4 make it similar enough.
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Is it possible and convenient to play a King's Indian Attack set-up as white after e4 and e5, or is it inconvenient? Please explain your answer so that my brain can understand
You shoould be fine, as long as you know what youre doing. Fischer played the KIA, and started with 1.e4
The following games are perhaps the most famous examples of the KIA.
- Fischer–Myagmarsuren, Sousse Interzonal 1967
1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.g3 c5 5.Bg2 Nc6 6.Ngf3 Be7 7.0-0 0-0 8.e5 Nd7 9.Re1 b5 10.Nf1 b4 11.h4 a5 12.Bf4 a4 13.a3 bxa3 14.bxa3 Na5 15.Ne3 Ba6 16.Bh3 d4 17.Nf1 Nb6 18.Ng5 Nd5 19.Bd2 Bxg5 20.Bxg5 Qd7 21.Qh5 Rfc8 22.Nd2 Nc3 23.Bf6 Qe8 24.Ne4 g6 25.Qg5 Nxe4 26.Rxe4 c4 27.h5 cxd3 28.Rh4 Ra7 29.Bg2 dxc2 30.Qh6 Qf8 31.Qxh7+ 1–0
You can certainly fianchetto the KB, using either the Vienna or 4 Knights formation, and there is another thread on this at the moment. It's not really a KIA because an early e5 is impossible, and White doesn't usually play the standard h4 attack, preferring f4. But it would make a good repertoire choice to combine with the KIA variations against the French, C-K and Sicilian.
I think you can do a KIA, but in my opinion, the closed Vienna system (where the queen's knight is on c3 instead of d2) would be better. After fianchetto, you move the king's knight to e2, push f4, and steamroller over them.
a3 do you mean the KIA after 1...e5 or do you mean the closed vienna? Do you want to do a daily unrated?
The King's Indian Attack is NOT a legitimate "catch-all" System. There are differing levels of legitimacy. The more of a strong-point e5 is for Black, the weaker it is for White.
Another thing to look at is the scope of Black's Light-Squared Bishop. With it passive or missing, it is harder for Black to execute pawn breaks against the White pawns on the light squares and also it becomes a useless defender to a Kingside attack.
There are basically 4 levels of legitimacy. You should avoid cases in the bottom 2.
Most Useful - Against the French and ...e6 Sicilian. The e-pawn has already moved to e6, meaning playing e5 would be a waste of time. In these lines where the Bishop is hemmed in behind the pawns. The difference between the French and e6-Sicilian is the d-pawn. If the Black pawn goes to d5, then White is looking for an e5-advance (e4, d3, Nd2, Ngf3, g3, Bg2, O-O, Re1, and e5 is typically the first 9 moves) and a direct attack on the Kingside. It does not matter if this came from 1.e4 e6 or 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d3. What matters is the Black d-pawn. Plain and simple.
If, instead of d4, the pawn goes to d6, preventing e5, then White should play c3 intending d4 and playing in the center. If this is prevented with ...e5 (in response to c3), then the Bishop on g7 is Blocked and White can play on the Queenside with a3 and b4 since the Bishop is now no threat to the Rook.
A Decent Try - Sicilians without 2...e6 and the Caro-Kann. The advanced pawn in both cases (c5 or d5) give Black central square weaknesses, like d5 in the Sicilian or e5 in the Caro-Kann. 3...e5 is common in the KIA vs Caro, but it is not a strong point like e5 is in say, the closed Ruy Lopez. This is important. The fact that the LSB is not hemmed in pretty much eliminates direct attacks on the Black King as you open yourself up to attack.
Highly Dubious to just plain bad - The King's Indian Attack is no good in 2 cases. The first is that Black has e5 as a strong point. This occurs in 1.e4 e5 lines. The other is when Black's position is too flexible and mobile. He has made no committal moves and has no central weaknesses. This is cases like the Pirc, Modern, Alekhine, Nimzovich. Just like 1...e5, the KIA is completely ineffective against these defenses.
Outright Horrid - The Scandinavian Defense. 1.e4 d5 2.d3? is bad. Black has not made a weakening pawn move to make the early Queen trade effective and lose the castling rights. This is VASTLY different than say, 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e6 for Black. Here, trade and trade Queens is fine for Black. The d4-pawn is a problem, weakening d4 and blocking his own Bishop from the desired d4-square.
Hope this explains why the KIA is only effective against the Sicilian, French, and Caro-Kann, and BEST against specifically the French and e6-Sicilians.
a3 do you mean the KIA after 1...e5 or do you mean the closed vienna? Do you want to do a daily unrated?
No, not the Vienna.
The Vienna sees the Queen's Knight go to c3. In the KIA, it goes to e2.
The specific features of the KIA are e4, d3, and Nd2.
If the c-pawn advances instead of the e-pawn, you have a Reti or English.
If the d-pawn goes to d4, you have main line king pawn openings
If the Knight goes to c3 instead of d2, then you have, depending on Black's defense, a Vienna or Closed Sicilian.
a3 do you mean the KIA after 1...e5 or do you mean the closed vienna? Do you want to do a daily unrated?
No, not the Vienna.
The Vienna sees the Queen's Knight go to c3. In the KIA, it goes to e2.
The specific features of the KIA are e4, d3, and Nd2.
If the c-pawn advances instead of the e-pawn, you have a Reti or English.
If the d-pawn goes to d4, you have main line king pawn openings
If the Knight goes to c3 instead of d2, then you have, depending on Black's defense, a Vienna or Closed Sicilian.
When 1.a3 asked to test some lines... I didn't know if he was referring to my line (closed vienna) or the KIA (OP). So I wanted some clarification...
the KIA from nf3 move order
There are lines there where the KIA is ineffective. For example, 1.Nf3 g6 2.g3 d6 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.O-O c6 and here 5.d3 is ineffective. White needs to take the center.
It is difficult to play the KIA against e5, but you can always do what Dubov did against Nakamura in the Lindores Abbey Rapid Challenge. e4 Nc3 g3 Bg2 and you can start a pretty powerful attack with f4 in the future. I would highly recommend checking out that game. It's different from the KIA in that you can sometimes get a very open position, but the Bishop on g2 and the ideas of f4 make it similar enough.
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Dubov actually has some really neat games in the KIA
https://www.365chess.com/search_result.php?submit_search=1&eco=A07&wid=203091
Just don't play e4 as a start. Worst opening move
Says the person who has played 1.e4 1344 times as White on chess.com.
You must be the one of the hypocrites that Anna Nalick talks about in verse 1 of Breathe (2am) - LOL!
Can you help me unravel my latest mistake,
I don't love him, winter just wasn't my season
Yeah we walk through the doors, so accusing their eyes
Like they have any right at all to criticize, hypocrites,
You're all here for the very same reason
And life's like an hourglass, glued to the table
No one can find the rewind button girl,
So cradle your head in you hands
And breathe, just breathe,
Whoa breathe, just breathe
There's possibly no need to be quite so prescriptive in claiming Nd2 as a "must" for the KIA. After all, the purpose of Nd2 is to prevent the early exchange of queens in some situations and it's rerouted, often via f1, before or after castling. Here, the Mieses Variation was played by Smyslov among others. The N on c3 can be used to attack black's f8 bishop if it's played to c5 or swapped for a N on d5 to soften up black's centre if black advances d7-d5, or it can also be rerouted. The Mieses variation was probably developed to prevent the "Frankenstein-Dracula".
you an try to play it from the nf3 move order, so that its harder for black to play e5. im not sure. as a b3 player, im considering this myself, since through the nf3 move order you can sometimes transpose into 1.b3 positions