Chigorin defence Queens gambit.

jamesstack

I suspect these lines might just be better for white although I kind of doubt I would see those kind of positions in my games....at my level players just arent going to know the theory that deep on the Chigorin. But that said....if black doesnt have a good answer I think I might start to make the transition to the grunfeld defence by playing Grunfeld set ups when white is not playing 2. c4. I find when 2. c4 is not getting played white is often not playing c4 at all and in that case it seems difficult to make the position complicate enough to try to win with black in the Chigorin. I know there is an opinion out there that I shouldnt expect to win with black at all in any opening but I'll have to respectfully disagree. I believe in fighting chess....although I am finding this challenging against the french exchange if white is well prepared....Im working on some ideas there but we will see. I may end up adding the sicilian to my arsenal at some point for those occasions when white only needs a draw and I need a win.

jatait47
jamesstack wrote:

Does anyone know if Liew actually offers any improvements for black in the lines after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 pxp 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 a6 or after 5. e4 Bg4 6. e4 e6.

Liew gives (5 Bg5) 5...h6 as "Black's most reliable move". Dunno which line you mean in the second.

jatait47
jamesstack wrote:

I find when 2. c4 is not getting played white is often not playing c4 at all and in that case it seems difficult to make the position complicate enough to try to win with black in the Chigorin.

That's certainly true whether c2-c4 is played or not; i.e. if White is content with a very slight advantage in a solid position it's extremely difficult to win as Black in the Chigorin.

jamesstack

Yeah...thats not deep enough.....I should have been more specific on the Bg5 line and I made a slight error...I was relying on my memory. Its actually 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 a6 7. e4 b5 8. d5 Na5 9. e5 b4 10. exf6 bxc3 11. b2xc3 e7xf6 12.  Qa4+ c6 13. dxc6 Qe7+ 14.  Be2 Qa3 15. QxQ BxQ 16. Nd4! Bb2 17, Kd2 BxR 18. RxR Be6 19. Rb1 and things arent looking so good for black even though he is an exchange up.

 

jatait47
jamesstack wrote:

Yeah...thats not deep enough.....I should have been more specific on the Bg5 line and I made a slight error...I was relying on my memory. Its actually 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 a6 7. e4 b5 8. d5 Na5 9. e5 b4 10. exf6 bxc3 11. b2xc3 e7xf6 12.  Qa4+ c6 13. dxc6 Qe7+ 14.  Be2 Qa3 15. QxQ BxQ 16. Nd4! Bb2 17, Kd2 BxR 18. RxR Be6 19. Rb1 and things arent looking so good for black even though he is an exchange up.

 

In that he gives 7 d5 Na5 8 e4 c6 or 8...g5, or if 7 e4 first then 7...Bg4. In other words avoiding the line you're worried about.

What was it you meant in the 5 e4 line?

jamesstack

On second thought the Bg4 e4 line doesnt seem as bad it may just take playing some games and then analyzing a bit with an engine to figure things out but here is the line where black sacrifices a pawn. He gets compensation for the pawn but white walked his king over to the queenside and ended up safer than his nemesis.


1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 dxc4 5.e4 Bg4 6.Be3 e6 7.Bxc4 Bb4 8.Qc2 0-0 9.Rd1 Qe7 10.Be2 e5 11.d5 Nd4

 

 

 

jamesstack

Yeah...c6 does look like an improvement so the book is worth buying probably just for that. Morozevich also tried 8..g5 and got crushed by Krammnik the position of that game I posted at the beginning of this thread. Hey thanks for your input on this....I think Ill get the move by move book but pass on the other ones as I think the right thing for me to do is transition into playing the Grunfeld. I'll continue to play the Chigorin as I learn the theory of the Grunfeld...which I understand that there is quite a bit of.

jatait47
jamesstack wrote:

On second thought the Bg4 e4 line doesnt seem as bad it may just take playing some games and then analyzing a bit with an engine to figure things out but here is the line where black sacrifices a pawn. He gets compensation for the pawn but white walked his king over to the queenside and ended up safer than his nemesis.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 dxc4 5.e4 Bg4 6.Be3 e6 7.Bxc4 Bb4 8.Qc2 0-0 9.Rd1 Qe7 10.Be2 e5 11.d5 Nd4

In this line he focuses more on 9...Bxf3 10 gxf3 Nh5.

varelse1
jamesstack wrote:

I suspect these lines might just be better for white although I kind of doubt I would see those kind of positions in my games....at my level players just arent going to know the theory that deep on the Chigorin. But that said....if black doesnt have a good answer I think I might start to make the transition to the grunfeld defence by playing Grunfeld set ups when white is not playing 2. c4. I find when 2. c4 is not getting played white is often not playing c4 at all and in that case it seems difficult to make the position complicate enough to try to win with black in the Chigorin. I know there is an opinion out there that I shouldnt expect to win with black at all in any opening but I'll have to respectfully disagree. I believe in fighting chess....although I am finding this challenging against the french exchange if white is well prepared....Im working on some ideas there but we will see. I may end up adding the sicilian to my arsenal at some point for those occasions when white only needs a draw and I need a win.

"When I am white, I win because I am white. When I am black, I win because I am Bogoljubov!"

KoldC45E

 In recent days I won some of me blitz matchez with opening I don't know before ,was trying to make counter attack while  playin as black.,,After I look at the live chess windows,  then I knew this opening bearing Chigorin name. Maybe some of me opponents are not familiar with this opening..Hehehe

varelse1

I just read that there is a Facebook Chess Book Collectors group.

Maybe that would help?