Countering the Scotch Offence
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Exd4, then nxd4 from white and Qh4!! Picks up a pawn :) because if Nc3 then Bb4 and if Qd3, Nb4 winning
I seem to recall the Qh4 line is not the main line for a reason.
3... exd4 is mandatory, or else black will suffer the consequences of deviating from this distinctive move. It is in the 4th move where other variations of the Scotch stem out. Anyway, pondering on any negative side-effect of 3... exd4 is moot and academic since there is no weakness that such move creates on black's position. After 4.Nfxd4 Bc5 5.Ndxc6 white has violated the opening rule that no single piece, as much as possible, must be moved more than once. The move 5.Ndxc6 can be met by 5... bxc6, faving the way to black's bishop fianchetto on b7, giving black a strong attack on white's kingside bolstered by black's bishop on c5.
Regarding the comment above, the black queen is ought to stay in her original place in anticipation of white's Nb5 move, attacking the c7 pawn.
Alright, because all of you are hating on me :P I will explain the point
Well, when you decide to play passively you'll get rolled.
However, my database shows that hte most common response to 5. ... Bb4 is not 6. Qd3 (which is only 2% of the games and has a lowly 30% success rate for white) but rather 6. Ndb5 with a 54% success rate.
Indeed, 4. ... Qh4 is rarely played. More commonly are the replies: 4. ... Bc5, Nf6 and even the very poorly regarded Nxd4 happens more often.
5... Bb4 can be safely ignored by white with 6. Be2. If 6... Qxe4, then 7. Ndb5. Bb4xc3 will open the B-file for white's rook, which may prove to be fatal since black will likely be forced to move his king to d8 to protect the c7 pawn.
If 4...Qh4 I like 5. Nb5
daw55124 wrote:
I seem to recall the Qh4 line is not the main line for a reason.
There's nothing wrong with Qh4.
A few months ago I played this here in an engine game, I (Black) was using Stockfish 2.o and White was Houdini 1.5. (stronger than Stockfish).
The game ended in a draw. I still maintain I would like to see top level players test this Steinitz Variation.
rooperi wrote:
daw55124 wrote:
I seem to recall the Qh4 line is not the main line for a reason.
There's nothing wrong with Qh4.
A few months ago I played this here in an engine game, I (Black) was using Stockfish 2.o and White was Houdini 1.5. (stronger than Stockfish).
The game ended in a draw. I still maintain I would like to see top level players test this Steinitz Variation.
Yep, but most players in this website aren't as strong as Houdini or Stockfish, nor can think 20+ moves ahead. Hence, we limit our ideas to the realm of the human brain.
EjFlora wrote:
rooperi wrote:
daw55124 wrote:
I seem to recall the Qh4 line is not the main line for a reason.
There's nothing wrong with Qh4.
A few months ago I played this here in an engine game, I (Black) was using Stockfish 2.o and White was Houdini 1.5. (stronger than Stockfish).
The game ended in a draw. I still maintain I would like to see top level players test this Steinitz Variation.
Yep, but most players in this website aren't as strong as Houdini or Stockfish, nor can think 20+ moves ahead. Hence, we limit our ideas to the realm of the human brain.
Well, I just think it proves that there is nothing inherrently wrong with the Steinitz, and it is totally playable, with practical chances for both sides. You say it's not the mainline for a reason, exactly what is the reason?
How will black answer 5. Nb5?
I hope that helps all of you guys.
5. Nb5
mattattack99 wrote:
5. Nb5
There are 3 main options, Qxe4, Bc4 or Bb5+
Qxe4 looks bad.
mattattack99 wrote:
Qxe4 looks bad.
Yeah, statistically it's the worst of the 3.
Move ECO Frequency Score AvElo Perf AvYear %Draws
1: Qxe4+ C45g 75: 33.7% 64.6% 2117 2039 1976 15%
2: Bc5 C45g 74: 33.3% 50.6% 2201 2216 1992 31%
3: Bb4+ C45g 67: 30.1% 48.5% 2183 2194 1986 13%
4: Kd8 3: 1.3% 66.6% 1985 67%
5: Nf6 2: 0.9% 0.0% 1999 0%
6: Qd8 1: 0.4% 100.0% 2005 0%
_______________________________________________________________
TOTAL: 222:100.0% 54.7% 2173 2152 1985 20%
Is it 'offence' or 'offense' ?
rooperi wrote:
EjFlora wrote:
rooperi wrote:
daw55124 wrote:
I seem to recall the Qh4 line is not the main line for a reason.
There's nothing wrong with Qh4.
A few months ago I played this here in an engine game, I (Black) was using Stockfish 2.o and White was Houdini 1.5. (stronger than Stockfish).
The game ended in a draw. I still maintain I would like to see top level players test this Steinitz Variation.
Yep, but most players in this website aren't as strong as Houdini or Stockfish, nor can think 20+ moves ahead. Hence, we limit our ideas to the realm of the human brain.
Well, I just think it proves that there is nothing inherrently wrong with the Steinitz, and it is totally playable, with practical chances for both sides. You say it's not the mainline for a reason, exactly what is the reason?
In what part did I say that Steinitz is not a mainline? And how can I reason out something that I didn't say? If you noticed, my comment refers to 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4 5. Nc3Bb4 6. Qd3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3a6 8. Nxc6 dxc6 line.
After white play 3. d4 what should black do in order to defend their position?
Consider you are black and you also want to fight for the center without 3. ... exd4
(There are not many discussions on this opening from the black pieces point of view)