I've never seen that line. Of course if black makes no effort to develop is bishop he will be worse.
I hear it described as passive, only in the hands of unimaginative players.
Criticisms of the Queens gambit declined
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Here is a line I see very often at my level. The moves I made are very common and is something I have developed over many many games starting with d4.
d4 is not passive if you are an imaginative player. It can easily produce sharp tactical lines and just as easily go into a slower more positional type of game. White should control which end of the spectrum the game falls on.
"Black can still pull dxc4"
I wait until white has developed his LSB to play this.
i always like 2. ... c6 as black :)
Scottrf wrote:
"Black can still pull dxc4"
I wait until white has developed his LSB to play this.
If White plans on developing his LSB, then he can just take the pawn before that happens.
@Aspasa
I see that very rarely. So rare in fact that I haven't come up with any imaginative counters to it. Should probably work on that.
The key for black is the move ...c5. If he can play this without trouble he has gained equality. If he cannot he will be crushed.
In your second line a long term plan would definetly be a pawn storm on the queen side to attack the exposed king (only 2 pawns), supported by the advanced pawn on the e file. Play will be sharp as it usually is with opposite side castling. If white castles kingside play nf8 (maybe ng6 later is playable), white will usually play on the queenside (Rb1/c1 and a minority attack) and in the center. But black has oppertunities to strike back in the center and on the kingside, play can develop both sharply and quietly depending on how you prefer it. Develop and trade off your LSB for his perhaps before putting the Knight in the center and closing it (which makes the deleopment of the bishop quite hard).
I will make a diagram to show a piece placement that looks like it could work out to blacks favor in your line just to show that there's definetly some plans, keep in mind I only play the QGD as white.
Another valid option is to position your pieces in the center and play for the pawn break c5 to blow open the center and create a tactical battle. But I definetly think the position calls for black to play on in the center and queenside. Either ways the center has to be taken care of, either through a solid blockade or an exchange of d pawn for c pawn. It will vary on what white chooses and you have to keep your plans adjustable, if he strikes very early on the kingside strike back in the center with c5 asap!
I wouldn't castle queenside if I was white.
I'm actually looking into a line with Nf3. Either expanding on the centre or going for the standard minority attack.
The QGD exchanged is an interesting strategic battle. It is not dull. It just takes more moves to get into the action rather than, say, a sicilian.
Of course if strategic confrontations are not your taste, you have many other defences to 1.d4
QGD exchanged...the most boring opening ever...i would prefer quit playing chess before i would play this stuff...
pfren wrote:
or disallow it by 6.Qc2, but this leaves the important h5 square unguarded, and allows Black easy equality.
are you referring to 6...Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 and now 8.Bd3 Nh5 9.Bxe7 Qxe7 10. Nf3 and Nf4! that is awkward for white.
But white can play 8.Nf3 Nh5 9. Bxe7 Qxe7 10.Be2 and there is no knight jumping on f4.
Wait wait pfren i fully respect your authority and opinion and your a hell of a better play then i am but id like to question your statement.
Pfren i have read the site about the lasker defence that you posted on another forum and have full read Mathew Sadler's queens gambit declined book. Now the point your making about h5 is interesting. Can you shouw an example and a line that exploits this?
White doesn't look great to me. Maybe better, but doesn't look scary.The doubled pawn isn't a real weakness because he can't open the f file, and black has the bishop pair. Wouldn't be scared of playing it as black, but would be annoyed at white for playing such boring chess, trading pieces just to double pawns like a beginner.
Feb 5, 2023
0
#14
The OP's interpretation of the opposite castling position is extraordinary, umm bad. As post 8 indicated, instead of just sitting there waiting for white's pawn storm h4, g4 to hit, black can launch one himself with b5 , a5, and Nb6. The bad bishop, can come into play with Ba6. What's weird is there is this sort of race happens, in nearly every opposite side castling position.
Instead of 10...Ne4 looking for simplications which seems better after white has king-side castled, Black can play 10...b5, intending a5, Nb6 etc and looks to be favorite in the race.
pfren wrote:
The position in #13 (Short variation) is just equal, white has tried everything in practice, but he has no advantage. IM Cox covers this variation nicely in "declining the queen's gambit". 7...Be6 instead of 7...Bg6 (Vaganian) also looks fully playable to me.
The dark side of 6.Qc2 (advocated in several books) is not very well-known, but... it's there:
I have analysed this for many days, and found nothing: Black has total equality, without any real worries.
Thanks for this, I wasn't aware of the line. 7. ..Be6 looks like a critical move then, maybe So's 9.f3 is the way to go? ( W. So - M. Tabatabaei, 2022 ), I will look at it next weekend.
The Short endgame is not an alternative for White and move 7 looks a tad too early for guaranteed dead equality given exchange Qc2 is a major line that's been played many times by world champions.
Here is the So - Tabatabaei game
Feb 5, 2023
0
#17
This is a thread from a few years ago. After 2013 Carlsen beat Kramnik in the Short endgame in 2016, with a Ne2 idea, but black can improve on that game.
Black seems to have an universal idea against the Botvinnik plan that works with 7e3, or 7Qc2 move order. In the OP's position if white plays 10f3, instead 10 0..0.0, 10...b5 110.0 a5 , 10 0.0 a5 11f3 b5. Black seems to have lots of good ideas against the exchange variation these days. (In top level games, compared to OP's position h6, Bh4 has usually been inserted, and 10f3 becomes 11f3 etc).
TwoMove wrote:
This is a thread from a few years ago. After 2013 Carlsen beat Kramnik in the Short endgame in 2016, with a Ne2 idea, but black can improve on that game.
Black seems to have an universal idea against the Botvinnik plan that works with 7e3, or 7Qc2 move order. In the OP's position if white plays 10f3, instead 10 0..0.0, 10...b5 110.0 a5 , 10 0.0 a5 11f3 b5. Black seems to have lots of good ideas against the exchange variation these days. (In top level games, compared to OP's position h6, Bh4 has usually been inserted, and 10f3 becomes 11f3 etc).
Just noticed ( on mobile! ), it probably would had been hard for Pren in 2013 to see So's 2022 game 🤣
why dont you just play the slav?
Feb 7, 2023
0
#20
why dont you just play the slav?
The first problem of the slave [in my opinion] is the exchange variant ( 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.cxd5 cxd5) because it can be difficult to win with Black even against weaker opponents.
After there is 1) d4 d5 2) c4 c6 3) e3 that can annoy because of a Qb3 as soon as the Bishop goes to f5. Example :
a : 1) d4 d5 2) c4 c6 3) e3 Bf5 4) Qb3
b : 1) d4 d5 2) c4 c6 3) e3 Nf6 4) Nf3 Bf5 5) Qb3
When i talk about the Queens gambit decliend i mean anything after this...
A favorate of the old times like capablanca and alekhine and beloved today by almost all world class players especially Kramnik.
And i dont understand why? Ive ben studying/reading about this opening for about a month now and played it purely and my results are dead poor. More poor than with any other opening. Let me throw a topical mainline out there
I just dont understand why anyone would play this. Right at the beggining black admits that hes somewhat worse. He would jump at the idea of a draw. And there are so many lines where white can just press and press and press all day with no risk of ever losing while black stays solid but sure as hell can never win the game