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Danish Gambit Schlechter Defense endgame actually better for white?

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FriendlySquid

Recently I've been doing some analysis of the Schlechter Defense main line against the Danish gambit and playing it against the computer from both sides. This is the position that arises in the Danish gambit accepted after 5...d5.

I had Stockfish 8 play this position against itself and white won. That game went

(Note that move 1...Nc6 here is actually 10...Nc6)

1...Nc6 2.Ngf3 Rhe8 3.O-O Bg4 4.Rfe1 h6 5.Rab1 Bxf3 6.Bxf6 Kxf6 7.Nxf3 Rab8 8.Rec1 g6 9.Rc5 a6 10.h3 Re6 11.g3 Ree8 12.Kg2 Kf7 13.Rcc1 Kf6 14.Nh2 h5 15.f4 Reg8 16.Nf3 Rge8 17.e5+ Ke6 18.Ng5+ Kd5 19.Rcd1+ Kc4 20.Rd7 Re7 21.Rc1+ Kb5 22.Rxe7 Nxe7 23.Rxc7 Nd5 24.Rg7 h4 25.Kf3 hxg3 26.Kxg3 Kc4 27.Rxg6 Rc8 28.h4 Kd4 29.Rd6 Rh8 30.Rd7 b5 31.e6 Kc4 32.Ra7 a5 33.Rxa5 Rf8 34.Ra7 Kc5 35.Nf7 Kb6 36.Rd7 Nf6 37.Rd3 Kc5 38.f5 Rg8+ 39.Kf4 Rg2 40.Nd6 Re2 41.Kg5 Nd5 42.Rd2 Re1 43.Nb7+ Kc6 44.Na5+ Kd6 45.h5 Rg1+ 46.Kh6 Rg8 47.e7 Kxe7 48.Rxd5 Kf6 49.Kh7 Rg7+ 50.Kh8 Rc7 51.Rxb5 Rc8+ 52.Kh7 Rc7+ 53.Kh6 Rc8 54.Rb6+ Kxf5 55.a4 Kf4 56.Kg7 Rc7+ 57.Kg6 Ra7 58.Nc6 Rd7 59.h6 Rd6+ 60.Kg7 Rd7+ 61.Kg8 Rd3 62.h7 Rg3+ 63.Kf7 Rh3 64.Rb4+ Kf5 65.Ne7+ Ke5 66.h8=Q+ Rxh8 67.Ng6+ Kd6

From playing this position out from both sides against the computer I have made a few observations of why I believe this position is favorable to white.

The first is this is not technically an "endgame", it's a queenless middlegame. If it were an endgame then it wouldn't be theoretically approved for white to castle and take his king away from the center. Meanwhile black has lost the right to castle and his king is vulnerable on f7, particularly to knight forks. In fact, in this position all four knights are still on the board and the rooks will be moving about, I noticed playing these positions that knight forks against king and rook were a common tactical motif, either landing one directly or using the threat of one, as white does at the start when he indirectly defends the e pawn by playing Nf3. (Before castles and Nc6 it's not technically a fork but if the knight on f6 captures the e pawn Ne5+ wins an exchange as well)

Another thing I noticed is that it seems easier for white to attack black's queenside majority than it does for black to attack white's kingside majority. This is because both the b and c pawns are on semi-open files.

White also has more control of the center and is better developed. In general it seems like white has more play in the position by utilizing knight forks against the king and using the rooks on semi-open files along with the minor pieces to go after black's queenside majority.

TitanCG

This position has been equal since forever. I think 7.Nc3 is the main move now. But if you want to learn more you might want to look at corespondance games. Engine games don't really teach you much of anything and their evaluations and play can be based on some abstract calculation that humans would never find otb.

FriendlySquid

7.Nc3 is an option, and I'm glad people play 7.Nc3 since black players using the Schlechter will then have less experience in the queenless middlegame than if everyone played 7.Bxf7+.

 I think white has an edge in this queenless middlegame, and I'll be using 7.Bxf7+ instead of 7.Nc3 against the Schlechter. According to the 365chess opening explorer after 7.Bxf7+ the stats are white wins 25.5% black wins 30.9% but this is based on white playing the wrong moves between 7 and 12. Following the above diagram after 12.0-0 the stats have changed to white wins 50% black wins 12.5%.

King safety is an issue for black in this position, from when I've played it against the computer and in all the games I've looked at there seems to be more accuracy required from black, and many ways for him to go wrong. In the game Kana vs Kojetsky, for instance, Kojetsky who was rated 2130 actually blundered and played 12...Nxe4 which lost a piece. That is one of the most basic tactics in the position and if it got a 2130 player I can't imagine how often it's going to get average people, and there are many more subtle dangers like that that are harder to see (as I've experienced myself from trying to play this position from the black side). I think a lot of people would push the c-pawn too early and then the knight can come to d6, for instance, and Rab1 sets up a threat which is hard to meet. Black can find themselves in trouble very easily in this position.

TitanCG

Yeah it does have a few traps. That's why I suggested looking at correspondence games. You can start noticing the paterns and usual tactics. I don't know if anyone uses it much otb but there can be an advantage in understanding an endgame like this.

Lukas_the_Great

Why instead nc3 n*e4

Caldwalla

7. Nc3 Bb4 and the attack loses momentum