Do certain openings make you feel slightly insulted and angry?

Sort:
S_Alexander

Players on master level choose (and should choose) "good" openings. But for amateurs (like myself) all openings are fun to play. Especially if you're experienced in some rare opening, your opponent is likely to fail in punishing you properly. And all this "book" moves, that repeat themselves in every game - boring. Chess360 is much more fun and less opening theory.

Blackfoxx

Not insulted or angry but when people play the Exchange Variation against my French I am always like meh, especially since my French repertoire is rather attacking with a quick f6 and 0-0-0.

PeskyGnat

I always waltz into Q-swap lines every chance I get, wondered if that makes my opponent angry, annoyed etc.

Hrm, as for what bothers me, probably when my opponent tries at all costs to get a K-side pawn storm going..having to make me defend really carefully and all that :) then the satisfaction of successfully defending it.

JGambit
Elubas wrote:

"I personally think the french is 90% rubbish, The caro is way better in my book."

Based on what? The bad bishop? Chess is just too complicated to be judged on isolated details like that. What's more important is whether the overall strategy of one side has chances to work out. One's comments about bad bishops just won't mean anything if their center is crumbling. Most openings are fine really; there are different strategies black can try, but they all generally have merit, and ways for them to go right and wrong, etc.

I find it slightly amusing that even though you are not that much of a better player then me you think that I dont like the french because of a simplistic reason. Frankly there are a lot of things that I dont think are that great about the french.

There is a huge difference in having a greater than usual advantage as white and having a winning line available. I dont claim that the pirc and french are losing, I do think that there are ways that white can get more then the usual advantage against them.

I think the french is a good practical choice for players, same with the pirc. In chess the drawing margin is actually very large so many different plans can be okay, thats why I say the french is 90% garbage and not 100%

toiyabe

Alekhine's defense gogo

whatbecause

I'm guessing you have similar dislikes as Black then?! It sounds like there are some positions you dislike playing, so I would focus even more on practising playing them. Maybe also try some less theoretical openings for a while, it will help you when you come back to more mainstream stuff. By the way, I have to disagree with you about the Caro being drawish; solid, yes, but certainly not any more drawish than the French or ...e5.

Elubas

"I find it slightly amusing that even though you are not that much of a better player then me"

I take this to mean my OTB rating is not that much higher than yours.

I apologize I suppose, but it was not an unreasonable assumption on my part, because the types of people who would just want to use a simple description like "rubbish" are not usually the types who would want to back that up with something that isn't superficial. Even your claim that white gets more than the usual advantage against the french is presumptuous, and frankly, I think it's just false. My claim is not that black is not losing by force because of a bad bishop; I'm saying the overall strategy for black is quite a good one, and may well be as effective as white's trumps much of the time. It's still superficial to say, I like white's space, I like white's bishop, I'm not claiming he's way better but I think he's better than usual. No, even that claim is a strong one that is not easy to back up. White has a lot of things to prove. I could offer variations but then I wasn't looking for that sort of discussion. I'm just giving my view here that you're being pretty presumptuous, because you think you know the answers to questions that even grandmasters don't really know.

I actually would agree that the pirc gives white better chances for an edge though. That can actually be evidenced by really sharp lines for white like the 150 attack or the austrian attack, in addition to all the positional lines white can choose. Openings like the pirc, king's indian, dutch, burn your bridges to some extent, and can have great rewards but can also be demanding for black. In the french black is much too solid to have been considered to have burnt his bridges. Sure white (vaguely) wants to attack in the french, but wanting to do this and actually doing this are far apart from each other when the central pawn chain is always under pressure.

Ziggy_Zugzwang

Chess is not only about space, but also time. Given enough time a good white player should get a good advantage - like Karpov. There are two variables suggested here : time and skill viz "good". Against this there is novelty , surprise and other psychological factors - perhaps taking chess across the fouth dimension into the world of poker....and perhaps a poker player could exploit a players "opening rage" !

JGambit
Elubas wrote:

"I find it slightly amusing that even though you are not that much of a better player then me"

I take this to mean my OTB rating is not that much higher than yours.

I apologize I suppose, but it was not an unreasonable assumption on my part, because the types of people who would just want to use a simple description like "rubbish" are not usually the types who would want to back that up with something that isn't superficial. Even your claim that white gets more than the usual advantage against the french is presumptuous, and frankly, I think it's just false. My claim is not that black is not losing by force because of a bad bishop; I'm saying the overall strategy for black is quite a good one, and may well be as effective as white's trumps much of the time. It's still superficial to say, I like white's space, I like white's bishop, I'm not claiming he's way better but I think he's better than usual. No, even that claim is a strong one that is not easy to back up. White has a lot of things to prove. I could offer variations but then I wasn't looking for that sort of discussion. I'm just giving my view here that you're being pretty presumptuous, because you think you know the answers to questions that even grandmasters don't really know.

I actually would agree that the pirc gives white better chances for an edge though. That can actually be evidenced by really sharp lines for white like the 150 attack or the austrian attack, in addition to all the positional lines white can choose. Openings like the pirc, king's indian, dutch, burn your bridges to some extent, and can have great rewards but can also be demanding for black. In the french black is much too solid to have been considered to have burnt his bridges. Sure white (vaguely) wants to attack in the french, but wanting to do this and actually doing this are far apart from each other when the central pawn chain is always under pressure.

fair assesment, and actully your OTB is much Higher then mine, I was basing on blitz ratings.

Elubas

Hey dude if you want to claim blitz superiority over me, that's not even unreasonable, go right ahead lol.

Raspberry_Yoghurt

I go into a fit of rage when people play e4

lolurspammed

The Marshall Attack, Winawer, Semi Slav and KID all make me somewhat angry.

Dolphin27

Cool game you played there XPlayerJX and quite impressive considering the time control. Your commentary is hilarious and entertaining. I thought it was funny how after move 38 you explained to us that your next move would be to take his queen  and then go after the pawns, lol. Aw man, you're great.

The Caro-Kann is one that I've never minded playing against actually.

The irritable little burst of aggression I get is mainly when I play blitz games anyway, and in fact, the wide range of opening responses is part of what makes 1.e4 so great.

I've realized I have a slight background anger towards my opponent whatever he plays. For example, when I'm playing the Sicilian as Black and my opponent plays something like 2.Bc4 I think "I'm going to learn this boy not to play such a patzer move, get the belt!" but if someone goes into an open Sicilian against me I think something similar like "This f'er thinks they can play an open Sicilian, well I'll teach them, I'll have them playing 2.Bc4 by the time I'm done with them!" I don't consciously think this, but this would be the vocalization of my subconscious background emotion.

And to whoever asked, yes I feel the same way when I'm playing as Black and my opponent plays 1.e3 or something, then I think "I'm going to stomp this goofy f'er off the face of the earth!" Of course, this doesn't always happen, this is just what I feel.

Elubas

The french by the way is not only the 3rd most popular e4 opening, it's almost twice as popular as the next one in line, the caro kann, according to the chess.com game explorer. With that said, I still consider 1...c6 to be a major response, I think it deserves to be in that category. Moves less popular than 1...c6 I would start classifying them as slightly offbeat (just a little, certainly the pirc for example isn't outrageous or anything, just not one of the more common defenses).

Justs99171

I am certainly no exponent of the French ... but ...


If you want to play black to win against 1.e4 without risking much, you only have three options and the French is the easiest one of the three to learn.

Jion_Wansu

Does the German opening make you angry or insulted?

Chicken_Monster
Elubas wrote:

The french by the way is not only the 3rd most popular e4 opening, it's almost twice as popular as the next one in line, the caro kann, according to the chess.com game explorer. With that said, I still consider 1...c6 to be a major response, I think it deserves to be in that category. Moves less popular than 1...c6 I would start classifying them as slightly offbeat (just a little, certainly the pirc for example isn't outrageous or anything, just not one of the more common defenses).

Is the French more popular than the Caro-Kann because it is easier to learn?

I'm not saying it is, I am asking.

Elubas

I'm not really sure why it's more popular to be honest -- it's something I've wondered about for years. My guess would be that players just find a lot of opportunities in the french, it's a well respected opening. It's often a very fighting defense. I kind of think of it as the closed version of a sicilian defense. White has chances on the kingside usually, and black often has chances on the queenside and center.

Also, I think among the more solid, equalizing moves 1...e5 and 1...c6, 1...e5 is probably more appealing. In contrast to the less natural 1...c6, 1...e5 doesn't concede space on move 1, not that this is such a big deal, but it's pretty hard to go wrong with opening the development for the queen and bishop and gaining space on top of that. So if black wants to just equalize 1...e5 is more likely to be the move with which to do that.

Legendary_Race_Rod

I spent about 45 minutes teaching my wife the basics of chess. I went to great efforts to explain things clearly and as simply as possible, checking her understanding along the way. We proceeded to her first game of chess and naturally I let her play with the white pieces. On her first move, she looked at all of her pieces with great consideration, then picked up her King and proudly and emphatically placed him the centre of the board. I wouldn't say it made me angry or upset, we had a good laugh about it, but the teacher inside of me died a death!

kingsrook11
Chicken_Monster wrote:
Elubas wrote:

The french by the way is not only the 3rd most popular e4 opening, it's almost twice as popular as the next one in line, the caro kann, according to the chess.com game explorer. With that said, I still consider 1...c6 to be a major response, I think it deserves to be in that category. Moves less popular than 1...c6 I would start classifying them as slightly offbeat (just a little, certainly the pirc for example isn't outrageous or anything, just not one of the more common defenses).

Is the French more popular than the Caro-Kann because it is easier to learn?

I'm not saying it is, I am asking.

I think the French defence is easier to learn, especially if you reply 3Nf6 to the Tarrasch and 3Nf6 to 3Nc3 as the some of the moves/ideas are thematic. It is also more counterattacking as Elubas said with Black starting an early Queenside attack in the 5Qb6 Advanced variations.