E4, D4 or C4?

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RussyPoo83 wrote:

Which of these is best for players in the 1200 to 1300 rating range?

I would recommend d4 over e4.
And instead of c4 - consider Nf3.
And - I recommend to the opening poster - to further consider your choices with white - think about how you'd play against each of them with black.
Because your options with black are what you're going to be facing with white.
Another way to look at it - the opening doesn't have much definition until both players have made at least one move.

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me actually playing c4

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playerafar wrote:
RussyPoo83 wrote:

Which of these is best for players in the 1200 to 1300 rating range?

I would recommend d4 over e4.
And instead of c4 - consider Nf3.
And - I recommend to the opening poster - to further consider your choices with white - think about how you'd play against each of them with black.
Because your options with black are what you're going to be facing with white.
Another way to look at it - the opening doesn't have much definition until both players have made at least one move.

I do not play 1)Nf3,... but I do play 1)b4,...

When I face 1)Nf3,... I generally respond 1)...,Nf6. Because it immediately stops white from playing 2)e4,... No initial king pawn games.

Then I wait for white to commit a pawn move and follow the transposition.

the advantages of playing 1)Nf3,... is :

A) it is extremely transpositional

B) because of that white can move order black into inferior positions, possibly in a defense that black did not even want to play.

A strong player will play 1)Nf3,... to truly test your opening knowledge.

I say this all the time but getting an MCO or equivalent and actually playing through all the openings with board and pieces will do two things

1) give a general overview of the ideas and flow of every opening.

2) make you aware of the importance of transposition between openings. Each opening produces an identifying finger print in the middle game. Or pieces of positions that will help you formulate a plan when the position is not clear or normally identified.

1) b4,... is a completely different animal.

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na3 is good in my opinion.

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chessterd5 wrote:
playerafar wrote:
RussyPoo83 wrote:

Which of these is best for players in the 1200 to 1300 rating range?

I would recommend d4 over e4.
And instead of c4 - consider Nf3.
And - I recommend to the opening poster - to further consider your choices with white - think about how you'd play against each of them with black.
Because your options with black are what you're going to be facing with white.
Another way to look at it - the opening doesn't have much definition until both players have made at least one move.

I do not play 1)Nf3,... but I do play 1)b4,...

When I face 1)Nf3,... I generally respond 1)...,Nf6. Because it immediately stops white from playing 2)e4,... No initial king pawn games.

Then I wait for white to commit a pawn move and follow the transposition.

the advantages of playing 1)Nf3,... is :

A) it is extremely transpositional

B) because of that white can move order black into inferior positions, possibly in a defense that black did not even want to play.

A strong player will play 1)Nf3,... to truly test your opening knowledge.

I say this all the time but getting an MCO or equivalent and actually playing through all the openings with board and pieces will do two things

1) give a general overview of the ideas and flow of every opening.

2) make you aware of the importance of transposition between openings. Each opening produces an identifying finger print in the middle game. Or pieces of positions that will help you formulate a plan when the position is not clear or normally identified.

1) b4,... is a completely different animal.

1) b4 I see as a very playable move.
One of the six intermediate moves.
Should one give it no attention?
Well one is going to have to face it when playing black.
Not often - but it will come up.
Point: When choosing between the top few move options with white for move 1 - that doesn't mean one is 'getting out of' having to deal with the others.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For very rank beginners who have just discovered what checkmate is but don't know what en passant is - how should the coach go at the early lessons?
Its a trick question. There's no rules. Depends on too many things.
I'm thinking though that most coaches will start beginners off with playing white and 'white openings'. Not black. Something to do with the coach-student chemistry.
And starting with white will be seen as 'easier'. White gets to 'determine'.
In these days of the internet though - coaching has probably changed considerably and continuing to change.

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Please explain " one of the six intermediate moves"

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chessterd5 wrote:

Please explain " one of the six intermediate moves"

I would describe - rather than 'explain'. Openings are not 'solved'.
Going by internet databases - experience and other factors ...
various moves of white's 20 move options on move 1 appear to be better than others.
Do you agree?
Some are better.
Premising that - then which?
Which are better - of the 20 and which appear to be the worst of the 20?
Notice I only said 'appear' there.
Perhaps people will 'lawyer up' for the worst seven of the 20.
But there's moves in between too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I have to be careful here - because the opening poster specifies e4 or d4 or c4.
So I'll just say for now that there appear to be seven better moves and seven moves 'look bad' and six are 'in the middle'.
The three moves named in the forum topic are all in the top group of seven.
But how people rank the top moves might vary tremendously.
I say - most experienced enough players would put e4 and d4 and c4 and Nf3 all in the top group - whether they have seven in the group or just those four or whatever.
And there would be different definitions of what 'better' is.

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chessterd5 wrote:

Please explain " one of the six intermediate moves"

It sounds like we're drifting into the chess world of Franklin K Young

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/young.html

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DrSpudnik wrote:
chessterd5 wrote:

Please explain " one of the six intermediate moves"

It sounds like we're drifting into the chess world of Franklin K Young

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/young.html

What an advertisment

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Spammer

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e4

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Wat

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It depends in which move you like best


personally, i like e4 becaud se i plya it alot and for another person, they woukd play d4 cause they’re more comfortabke.


personally, d4 is pretty good with d5 then c4.


C5 woukd be a great move for e4 going in for the Sicillian but c4 in the opening is also interesting. Its a move nobody usually plays as white. Its unique. I would play c4 after e4, c5, the. Yes c4 i would play.



Its a great way to confuse your opponent

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DrSpudnik wrote:

This lover's spat is heating up!

Do you actually read it? I do get that you're saying that the two parts of a split personality can be in love with each other and then they can have a tiff. What happens if they kiss and make up? They might breed!

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ryanguon wrote:

It depends in which move you like best


personally, i like e4 becaud se i plya it alot and for another person, they woukd play d4 cause they’re more comfortabke.


personally, d4 is pretty good with d5 then c4.


C5 woukd be a great move for e4 going in for the Sicillian but c4 in the opening is also interesting. Its a move nobody usually plays as white. Its unique. I would play c4 after e4, c5, the. Yes c4 i would play.



Its a great way to confuse your opponent

Believe it or not, this is an actual opening, called a Maroczy Bind, but it's probably been played too early by white. In general, when such things are played too early, black can get a good position by playing e6 and d5.

Avatar of playerafar
ryanguon wrote:

It depends in which move you like best


personally, i like e4 becaud se i plya it alot and for another person, they woukd play d4 cause they’re more comfortabke.


personally, d4 is pretty good with d5 then c4.


C5 woukd be a great move for e4 going in for the Sicillian but c4 in the opening is also interesting. Its a move nobody usually plays as white. Its unique. I would play c4 after e4, c5, the. Yes c4 i would play.



Its a great way to confuse your opponent

"It depends in which move you like best"
A very good - very significant point and good premise - which connects to the reality that every player is different.
Beginner/novice or other player asks: 'Which is better on white's first move - e4 or d4 or c4 ...?
Other player or coach or whoever responds:
'Which of those do you like the most?'
first player: 'I don't know. Tell me how to pick.'
Responder: "You're not confined to one. And those three moves are three of the four best moves. The other one is 1) Nf3. There's three other solid moves. They are f4 and b3 and g3 - but they're not considered to be as good - so they're played less than those first four"
First: 'Hey I like b4 but many say it isn't best'
Answer: 'Then it is the best for you. Because you decide. But you're not chained to that. You want to try out e4 or d4 or c4. Right? Of those three I recommend you try out d4 first. Then e4. But don't forget 1) Nf3 - a great move that gets great results. I suggest c4 as last of the four.'
-----------------------
which gets back to @ryanguon 's excellent point:
'It depends on which move you like best'

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Regarding 'Maroczy Bind' that can refer to an opening variation that happens in the Sicilian opening - or a pawn structure or a process of getting to that pawn structure.
That can be verified by internet search.
What it is depends on the author of whatever internet article or post on it.
There are many google entries on it.
--------------------------------------
'Binds' in reference to pawn structure - often refer to a pawn sliding alongside an opponent's pawn on its fourth rank - to the fifth rank of the binding pawn in other words.
Which means the two pawns will then be on horizontally adjacent squares.
-------------------------------------------
So in the Queen's Gambit for example - white can get a 'Queenside Bind'.
One of five major advantages white might get in the QGD (Queen's Gambit Declined)
if black doesn't 'watch it'.
The Queenside Bind in the QGD features white playing c5 - sliding his c-pawn alongside black's d5 pawn. Note that that d5 pawn can now no longer get rid of that white c-pawn which is now in black's territory - black's half of the board.
Invading it.
-------------------------
White can get at least four other big advantages in the QGD instead or even as well in some cases.
They are - Kingside attack with pieces - Kside attack with pawns - Superior Development and something called 'Minority Attack'.
1) d4 is a very good move. Yes! It is. But that doesn't mean its 'easy to play'.
And black can avoid the Queen's Gambit.
Like this:
1) d4 Nf6
2) c4 c5. Now you've got the 'Modern Benoni'.
But then:
3) d5 b4?! the Benko Gambit.
Reaction by observers: 'Hey that's too advanced!'
Missing the point: players playing 1) d4 intending c4 next move - face chess realities like the Benoni and the Benko and the Gruenfeld and so on.
That's why the claim that 1) Nf3 is 'harder' is suspect.
The Benko is 'easy'? Come on now.

Avatar of Compadre_J

Position #136 isn’t a Maroczy Bind.

The Position is still yet to be determined.

The d4 pawn has to be exchanged before it is Maroczy. The D pawn could go to d3 instead.

The Position would be called Bot something.

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Suiiii

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I wouldnt care much 😂