Exchange French

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Mazetoskylo

Many ways to break the symmetry. The fastest (and 100% sound) one:

KamikazeJohnson
lassus_dinnao wrote:
Oh, by the way there is this dubious gambit with Nf6 Dxe6 Bxe6. It’s so dubious that it doesn’t even have a name, but it’s fun and works at low level

I call it the "Laissez-Faire Gambit", as White captures on d5 and Black just "lets it happen".

Definitely dubious...black gains development in exchange for the pawn, but doesn't really get any initiative to make use of it, and White has plenty of opportunities to exchange pieces, shooting for a quick end Game conversion where the extra pawn could be decisive. Stockfish gives it about a 0.65, so there are worse openings out there. Great psychological weapon to use on someone who's hoping for an easy, drawish game with the Exchange French.

KamikazeJohnson
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS wrote:

I've been playing the Caro Kann for 2-3 years (not only here but on other accounts and websites) with great results. I've tried the last months to switch just for fun from the Caro to the French and every time or at least 7/10 times, I face the exchange french. It is so boring, french players how do you deal with that and what are the plans

As a long time French Defense player, best advice I can give you about the Exchange French is...improve. Lower rated players play 3. exd5 because they don't know what else to do. I'm currently rated in the 1300-1450 range, and when I play the French, I get the Exchange version maybe 1 game in 10, if that. You'll.see it a lot less as you climb the ratings ladder amd run into more players who have studied the French.

BILLY_AGAPITIDIS

@KamikazeJohnson

Yeah i figured that the higher the rating, the less exchange French will occur

1Lindamea1
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS написал:

@lassus_dinnao

Well i try set ups with Bd6, Ne7 and other moves with queenside castling. But it seems white has a faster attack. And it's like I'm taking all the risks. Anyway thanks for the answer

whites attack is actually weak. All they have is their rook, queen and bishop. Sometimes just pushing one pawn or creating an escape route is enough to evade the attack. We can even use their b5 move as a reason to transfer our c6 knight to our attack. Meanwhile we have ALL of our pieces in the attack(except for c6 knight and d8 rook, the e7 knight can join the attack in 2-3 moves), so our attack is actually stronger, and the position is more dangerous for white. They still have F3 knight and h3 bishop on the defensive tho, so breaking them won't be as easy

1Lindamea1
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS написал:

@lassus_dinnao

Well i try set ups with Bd6, Ne7 and other moves with queenside castling. But it seems white has a faster attack. And it's like I'm taking all the risks. Anyway thanks for the answer

lets take this random game that I found on lichess

like we see, black didn't even care about the attack. The only risk here is the fact that you may be forced to pause your offence in order to defend your king. White's attack is actually very weak
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS

@lassus_dinnao

Well in this case yeah black had a better and fastter attack. Anyway thanks for the help I'll definitely try opposite side castling as it seems to me the best try

ThrillerFan
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS wrote:

@ThrillerFan

Well even in those endgames if the pawn structures are symmetrical the game is drawish, but thanks for the advice

If White is 1800, the chances he knows anything about endings is slim to none. Occasionally I draw those positions, but the vast majority are wins.

If a 2400 wants to play the exchange variation and draw, I have zero objection to drawing anybody 2400+.

Aren't you in the 1800s yourself ThrillerFan, at least in some rating scales? Just checked the last blitz game you lost in and it was to someone rated in the 1800s, computer says you were level until the endgame where you suddenly lost an even position.

The ratings here mean nothing.

Over the board is all I look at. I am 2033 in the February supplement.

ThrillerFan

Here is proof about my post early on. I had 3 exchange Frenches in a 1-week period over the board, and won all 3. They may not even have been winning entering the endgame, but none of them were lost for Black, and as mentioned before, KNOW YOUR ENDINGS! Two of the three were knight endings, the other still saw the Queens, one set of Rooks, and opposite colored bishops when the game ended.

This second game was played on a Tuesday Night after work - of the three, this is probably the one of least quality by Black. For instance, 27.Nf5 is stronger than 27.Nb3 and when I played 28...a4, I missed 31.Qf3 until after I played it - well, he missed it right then and there on move 31.
 

This third one was a weekend tournament where I faced the same player I played that previous Tuesday night.

RideZen2

Play it like Frank Marshall.

Alchessblitz

https://youtu.be/ZKPZX6gGRug?list=PLAwlxGCJB4Nfej7e17QSS0LxrCBOCUpYu Watch Anish v Pragg! Alireza, Nodirbek, Wei Yi & Ian Hunt For The Lead! | Tata Steel 2024 Rd 5

Ju WenJun won against Firouja in exchange French so the arrogant dogmatists who say something like "as White it is impossible to win against a GM in exchange French in time long ", they talk ***

ThrillerFan

Another nasty win by Black that I played tonight (I was Black of course, wouldn't play this trash as White). The Exchange Variation SUCKS!

betgo

I play 4.c4, which leads to a similar position to the Panov Attack Caro-Kann. I like getting the French players into a wide open game, but it still has a French flavor. Similarly if you play 2. c3 or 2Nc3 in the Sicilian, it is still a Sicilian with double-edged positions sometimes resulting.

Mazetoskylo
betgo wrote:

I play 4.c4, which leads to a similar position to the Panov Attack Caro-Kann. I like getting the French players into a wide open game, but it still has a French flavor. Similarly if you play 2. c3 or 2Nc3 in the Sicilian, it is still a Sicilian with double-edged positions sometimes resulting.

This is very different from the Panov (where Black has an e-pawn, not a c-pawn). Actually if Black takes on c4 before the Bf1 has moved there's a transpisition to Queen's Gambit accepted, but of course Black need not comply. Usually he has an easy game answering 4.c4 with 4...Nf6 and ...Bb4.

BILLY_AGAPITIDIS

@ThrillerFan

Very nice games, thanks for the help 😁

betgo

Yeah, the engine evaluates 4c4 as even and the Panov Attack as +0.09. I agree there are more opportunities for black to screw up in the Panov Attack. I just don't like playing the closed game after an eventual e5 and find the regular exchange variation boring. I could try the Tarrasch Variation, which usually results in an open game.

AngryPuffer
ThrillerFan wrote:
BILLY_AGAPITIDIS wrote:

I've been playing the Caro Kann for 2-3 years (not only here but on other accounts and websites) with great results. I've tried the last months to switch just for fun from the Caro to the French and every time or at least 7/10 times, I face the exchange french. It is so boring, french players how do you deal with that and what are the plans

The exchange Variation is the easiest variation of all. You are basically given a draw from the word go. 99% of players that play the Exchange are rated under 2000 over the board. The way to get a leg up on these fools is to study your minor piece endings. 95 percent of exchange French games wind up being (white listed first) N vs N, NN vs NN, BN vs NN, or NN vs BN. Master Your minor piece endings and you'll beat the exchange variation!

what if white is lower rated? now im forced to play for a win or i lose rating. How do i play for a win when the 0-0-0 lines are dubious and the c5 lines just give white an advantage?

Mazetoskylo
AngryPuffer wrote:
 

what if white is lower rated? now im forced to play for a win or i lose rating. How do i play for a win when the 0-0-0 lines are dubious and the c5 lines just give white an advantage?

The c5 lines are so dubious, that Anish Giri advocates them at his Chessable French course.

AngryPuffer
Mazetoskylo wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
 

what if white is lower rated? now im forced to play for a win or i lose rating. How do i play for a win when the 0-0-0 lines are dubious and the c5 lines just give white an advantage?

The c5 lines are so dubious, that Anish Giri advocates them at his Chessable French course.

1Lindamea1
AngryPuffer написал:
Mazetoskylo wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
 

what if white is lower rated? now im forced to play for a win or i lose rating. How do i play for a win when the 0-0-0 lines are dubious and the c5 lines just give white an advantage?

The c5 lines are so dubious, that Anish Giri advocates them at his Chessable French course.

you arent supposed to play c5 until Bd3 is played. It goes not nf3 c5, but nf3 nf6 bd3 c5