Exchange french: Equality for black on move 3?

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x-5107229194

GM Ben Finegold (https://youtu.be/4mI0UO1xklo?t=300), timestamped @5.00, mentions that after 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd4 exd4, black has equalised. 

I do not understand how black has reached equality in this completely symmetrical position. If black has equalised there, then why is there 'no equality' after 1. e4 e5, or 1. d4 d5  ?

Moving away from this specific case, I find it hard to grasp the concept of 'gaining equality' for black - what does it mean, and what has to happen for it to occur?

Uhohspaghettio1

I would say it's that Black has no trouble with developing and castling quickly, while after 1. e4 e5 white can play Nf3, then everything black does, white always seems to have some move that forces black to respond, and black ends up with a slightly more cramped defensive position. With the french exchange however both sides are open. However that doesn't mean the french exchange is EXACTLY equal.  

I wouldn't always take literally pronouncements of "equality" even by GMs as they seem to get a kick out of doing that for openings they don't think much of. Nick de Firmian is a particularly egregious serial offender for this where he'll label any opening that doesn't see much GM play as "leads to equality with best play" when that really misses the whole point of openings. Every opening in the end "leads to equality with best play", that doesn't nullify the point of the openings. 

 

x-5107229194

I see Uhohspaghettio1, fancy talk grin.png

ConfusedGhoul

in the specific position White can't come up with any meaningful threat or pressure so the extra tempo means nothing if compared to the Petrov where White can fight for an advantage

mwstein

Stockfish gives White a slight advantage which IMHO is correct - Black has to play carefully, otherwise White can get an advantage, e.g. by using the extra tempo to get t the e-file first and build up pressure. With correct play it is relatively easy for Black to fully equalize.

x-5107229194

#5

mwstein, you misunderstood the point - the point of the discussion is that black supposedly has already equalised, on move 3! Not later on, after 'correct play'. And connected to Uhohspaghettio1's post, why did stockfish's evaluation gives you enough proof to decide that white is better and black has no equality, but GM Ben Finegold (who I am sure has access to stockfish grin.png) thinks otherwise?

NikkiLikeChikki
I play the exchange French because I hate the French and it annoys black. They roll their eyes and and let out audible sounds of disgust. That alone is worth the price of admission.
ThrillerFan
NikkiLikeChikki wrote:
I play the exchange French because I hate the French and it annoys black. They roll their eyes and and let out audible sounds of disgust. That alone is worth the price of admission.

 

You are completely wrong there!  I love facing the exchange!  It is a heavy burden completely lifted off my back!  Equality is a synch to reach in the Exchange.

 

I appreciate half the point and will now fight you for the other half of it!

ThrillerFan
ThrillerFan wrote:
NikkiLikeChikki wrote:
I play the exchange French because I hate the French and it annoys black. They roll their eyes and and let out audible sounds of disgust. That alone is worth the price of admission.

 

You are completely wrong there!  I love facing the exchange!  It is a heavy burden completely lifted off my back!  Equality is a synch to reach in the Exchange.

 

I appreciate half the point and will now fight you for the other half of it!

 

I also love it when people do something REALLY stupid and make my life easy.

White plays a dubious at best line to start with, and then he proceeds to blunder twice after that!

 

 

NikkiLikeChikki
I don’t think I’m wrong. I’ve heard many French players grimace and spit at the mention of the exchange. There are always exceptions, but these folks spend a lifetime studying 20 moves of theory in the Winawer or Rubinstein, and you go and play the four knights equivalent of the French. It’s gotta be annoying.
Toad1258

exchan

Toad1258

exchanging in the French is kind of bad for white because the light square bishop is better

Toad1258

I do the French and I prefer a closed game because all the moves you play are natural and attacking whites center

tygxc

After 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 black has blocked the diagonal of his Nc8 and pawn e4 is more central than pawn e6. After 3 exd5 exd5 the bishop is free again and the pawn structure is symmetrical.

darkunorthodox88

im always a little skeptical of french players claiming to like playing the exchange.
You are a veteran of messy dynamic chess where you often prefer slogs, and doubled edged nightmare positions and all of a sudden getting a very dull position to shorten the time to equalize is your cup off tea? are you a fort knox/rubinstein players or what?

actually one, of the few reasons i never adopted the french aside from some funky nimzowitsch defense transpositions and stuck to Owen's defense was that in lines with d5, i never had to worry about encountering dull scared class players happily entering exchange on me, and having to grind in an afternoon open for the slighest sign of an attempt for an advantage. That's not what i play chess for.