Fianchetto Advice

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Avatar of Steve18712
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Avatar of Yigor

Since the night on c6 is partially pinned, U can try to put the pressure on e5 starting with 5. Nf3.

Avatar of varelse1

In theory, it seems you coul get away with 4.b4, just to mess with your opponents head. But i do not see that it leads to an advantage after 4...Bb7

But in that position I think I would continue (with moves in some order) Pe4, Pd3,Nc3, Nge2, and 0-0. I think this set up would prove black has chosen the wrong diagona for his LSB.

Avatar of Steve18712
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Avatar of Yigor

Steve18712: The situation at h1-a8 diagonal is at your advantage so imho U shouldn't block it with e4. It might be better to play e3-d4:

 

 

Here U have a substantial advantage. happy.png

Avatar of Steve18712
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Avatar of Nckchrls

Black's ...b6, ...Bb7, ...Nc6 idea isn't great. The ...Bb7 is best mainly on the open diagonal, you usually don't want to block it because it's hanging. White's Bg2 is covered once castled, so it can be blocked with Nf3 as there is no pin. In fact, there's the Monticello Trap, I think its called, in the QID that has a double attack by White when he moves the Nf3 threatening something and attacking the hanging Bb7. Mostly best for Black is keeping the Bb7 diagonal open and watching out for the trap and exchanging on g2 as soon as it clears. Or spending the tempo to protect the bishop. For white, probably OK to block with Nf3 but otherwise want to keep the diagonal open and maybe concentrate on queen side expansion. A key is also white square control. A nice game showing this was like a 16 year old Carlsen vs. Hammer in 2006 I think.

For general Bg2...Bb7 ideas might want to check out QID mainline. For general Bg2 ideas, Seirawan has an interesting video on YouTube called something like Strategic Ideas - Game Versus Tony Miles.

Avatar of Steve18712
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Avatar of penandpaper0089

There's a theory that the protected fianchettoed bishop is typically better because the opposing bishop can run into tactics because it's not protected and sometimes things just aren't possible because it's unprotected. Anyway 1.c4 b6 is a legitimate idea to think about though.

 

One idea is 1.c4 b6 2.Nf3 Bb7 3.g3 Bxf3 4.ef c5 with the idea that if White doesn't play d4 now he'll never be able to play it. So White plays 5.d4 cd 6.Qxd4 Nc6. Otherwise there are many other ways the game can go from here.

White can try 1.c4 b6 2.Nc3 Bb7 3.e4 with the idea of playing g3 later. This leads to interesting positions.

Avatar of Steve18712
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Avatar of ThrillerFan

Don't just start thinking that you can systematically play g3 and Bg2 and expect anything good from it.  You actually need to understand what you are doing before you play it.

 

There are 2 instances where Fianchettoing the Bishop is no good:

 

1) 1.c4 b6 2.g3 Bb7 3.Nf3 Bxf3 4.exf3 is one of the weakest ways for White to fight the English Defense without just flat out giving up material.  He should be grabbing the center at that point.

 

2) 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2?

Anybody that has put in the true effort to study the English should already know that any time Black develops the Knight to c6, White must develop his Knight to c3 and wait to see what Black does.  After 3.Bg2?, Black gets complete equality and maybe even a teeny-tiny edge with 3...f5! 4.Nc3 Nf6 (= or =/+)

 

Instead, White must play 3.Nc3, and against moves like 3...Nf6 or 3...g6, then 4.Bg2 is perfectly fine, but after 3...f5, White needs to shift gears and play 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.d4! e4 6.Nh4 (With the Bishop on g2, this move is impossible as the Knight is on the verge of getting trapped!) and in this line, the Light-Squared Bishop, despite the g3 push, should be developed Classically, like to e2.  The idea is to pressure f5 in order to try to entice ...g5 out of Black, which he may do voluntarily as early as move 6, at which point the KNIGHT goes to g2, and then you pressure g5, often with h4, and encourage Black to advance the pawn to g4 (or take on h4) and you have a beautiful outpost on f4 for the Knight.

 

I would suggest reading Marin's three books if you are going to try to play a complicated opening like the English.  Those of you that think you can close your eyes and ignore what Black plays, and play the same moves every game, are highly mistaking!

 

It's just like QP systems.  The London doesn't work against everything (Modern Defense), the Torre doesn't work against everything (early ...d5 systems on move 1 or 2), the Colle doesn't work against everything (only works when ...e6 has been played with the Bishop behind the pawn chain - after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5 or 3...Bg4, White needs to play 4.c4 rather than 4.Bd3 or 4.c3), etc.  The English is just as much in this category that playing it "systematically" will lead to failure!

Avatar of SeniorPatzer

FWIW, sometimes I do b3 and Bb2 to mess with a KID, Modern/pirc, Dragon player.  

Avatar of Nckchrls
SeniorPatzer wrote:

FWIW, sometimes I do b3 and Bb2 to mess with a KID, Modern/pirc, Dragon player.  

 

On the world cup videos I heard the announcers kid about GM Jobava's liking 1. b3, which I had not really followed. Therefore, you must be GM Jobava. Correct? happy.png

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
Nckchrls wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:

FWIW, sometimes I do b3 and Bb2 to mess with a KID, Modern/pirc, Dragon player.  

 

On the world cup videos I heard the announcers kid about GM Jobava's liking 1. b3, which I had not really followed. Therefore, you must be GM Jobava. Correct? 

 

I should have beat Wesley So in the Classical portion of tbe World Cup.   Aaaaiiiieeee!

Avatar of Steve18712
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Avatar of penandpaper0089

Marin wants to avoid the reversed gran prix attack (1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2 f5 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.d3 Bb4/Bc5) so he tries to get in the move d4 quickly to avoid it even at the cost of a tempo. He doesn't like the the position after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2 f5 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.e3 d5 either so he tries that line which requires him to delay the move Bg2. It leads to a position similar to the one you get after 1.e4 e6 2.f4 d5 3.e5 which is a French in which Black can get the light-squared bishop outside of the chain. In the reversed position White can do the same thing with his dark-squared bishop.

 

I don't know which approach is better but there are pros and cons to each. The reversed gran prix leads to easy play but for both sides. Black's attack probably plays itself and White needs to play actively. This 6.Nh4 thing avoids this but it's more complicated and the knight on h4 or g2 isn't exactly impressive imo. But if it works it works I guess. You end up with an extra center pawn for your trouble,

Avatar of penandpaper0089
Steve18712 wrote:

Thanks penandpaper0089. I'd never really considered 1...b6. Could this not be countered by 1.c4 b6, 2.Nf3 Bb7, 3.e3 (protecting the knight with the queen) followed by g6 and Bg7?

Do you mean g3 and Bg2? You could but it would just lead to some other opening.

Avatar of Nckchrls

The black idea ...b6, ...Bb7, ...Bxf3 wasn't that common but maybe is getting a computer boost lately. If black has that plan he is certainly coming prepared.

In Seirawans video, he mentions he knew his opponent Miles did like that plan so he adjusted. I can't remember exactly what he did though allowed ...Bxf3 but more to his timing than black's if I remember that right.

Avatar of Steve18712
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