all of you are awesome.......
french defence (advance)
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Jul 12, 2016
0
#43
YuriSenkevich wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
YuriSenkevich wrote:
ThrillerFan, I kind of agree with you that the c5 lines agaisnt the Tarrasch are quite annoying, but, isnt it too dogmatic to call a sound defense a "joke" just because you like the positions that arise after it with the Black pieces?
Karpov and many other players have used the Tarrasch, if your c5 line was that good then no one would play the Tarrasch Defense.
According to my database Black scores better in the 3...Nf6 lines
And you say "According to my database ...", so you are the owner of 365chess.com? Doesn't take long to figure out that is what you are using.
And also, if you base percentages on move 3, your analysis is severely flawed! Let's dig a little deeper, using ONLY the 365chess.com database, no other resources because clearly they are meaningless according to you:
So you want to claim 3...Nf6 is so great because it scores higher. Now, going on your basis of highest scoring lines and making that your choice, after the practically forced moves 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Bd3 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ne2 cxd4 8.cxd4 f6 9.exf6 Nxf6 10.Nf3 Bd6 11.O-O, of Black's 3 main options, 11...O-O, 11...Qc7, and 11...Qb6, the 3rd scores the highest on the only database on the planet, so you choose 11...Qb6 (which could also be played on move 7 or 8)
So after 11...Qb6, 12.b3 has been causing far more headaches than the older 12.Nc3, and I'm going based on current theory, articles, multiple databases, research, the whole 9 yards, not just merely 365chess, the only database on the planet according to you.
So based on the only chess database in the world, Black's best percentage is with 12...O-O (overall percentage, not just percentage of wins), so you play 12...O-O. I now play 13.Bf4.
WOW! How are those win percentages looking for Black compared to move 3?
This is why I say that basing on a percentage score of a single database at an early move like move 3 is flawed logic! You get a better idea of percentages when you delve deeper into lines! It weaves out the garbage that skews the numbers!
Also, if you are going to play the French Winawer, and White scores, hypothetically, 57% by playing 3.Nc3. Well, what good does that data do you? That includes McCutcheon, Classical, Steinitz, Winawer, Delayed Exchange Lines, etc. Maybe the Steinitz scores 61%, and skews the total numbers whereas maybe the Winawer only scores White 55%, and the MacCutcheon 54%.
Don't try to convince me that percentage numbers on 365chess.com at move 3 prove diddly-squat!
Generally speaking 3...Nf6 lines score better according to my database, or how you would like me to say it, according to the database chess365 provides and that my friend is stadistics, or are you going to discuss what a database says on move 3?
EDIT: I am currently chilling and dont feel like completely reading all of your post which does not mean I dont care about it. If you care about my answer wait for a serious one later.
I look forward to your response later.
HOWEVER - I MAY ADD - Your claim of 3...Nf6 scores better is actually WRONG!
3...c5 scores better even in your database!
28.1 + (0.5 * 28.5) = 42.35% (Black's score with 3...Nf6)
22.5 + (0.5 * 42.2) = 43.6% (Black's score with 3...c5)
So even without delving deeper, which is still the only valid way to determine score, 3...c5 beats 3...Nf6.
Why do you add loses with draws?
Would a ratio % wins / % loses be more relevant?
(I don't want to be part of your feud, I'm just asking ><)
If there are a lot of draws black is doing quite okay so the ratio doesn't tell everything. Though if you do it the way thriller does it you get an accurate number because you're also counting the draws
Jul 12, 2016
0
#46
Merovwig wrote:
Why do you add loses with draws?
Would a ratio % wins / % loses be more relevant?
(I don't want to be part of your feud, I'm just asking ><)
No, when you go to figure out the percentage score for any position, it is always 1 point per win and a half point per draw.
So if you play 20 games with the French as Black, and White wins 8 games, there are 7 draws, and Black wins 5 games, Black scored 8.5 points out of a possible 20, which is 5 + (0.5 * 7) = 5 + 3.5 = 8.5
So your "percentage" is 8.5/20, or 42.5%
Using percentages instead of game count amounts to the same thing. In percentage terms, the results above would be:
White Wins - 40%
Draws - 35%
Black Wins - 25%
Black's percentage is 25 + (0.5 * 35) = 25 + 17.5 = 42.5%
You don't just discard draws to figure out percent score. Of course, to figure out White's percentage scored, you would take White Wins plus Half the Draws because White Wins equate to 1 point for White, and Draws equate to a half point for White. This of course would come to 57.5% because White's percent score (NOT % of wins, % score) plus Black's will always total 100%, and to prove it, 40 + (0.5 * 35) = 40 + 17.5 = 57.5%.
It's just like playing a match. Let's say you we each faced Kasparov 100 times. You score 5 wins, 2 draws, and 93 losses against him. I score 2 wins, 14 draws, and 84 losses against him. You have more wins, but my score is better. I scored 9 out of 100, or 9%, you scored 6 out of 100, or 6%. Same concept!
Based on your formula of comparing wins to losses, 5 / 93 (0.053) is greater than 2 / 84 (0.023), but your score is actually worse than mine, hence why your logic is flawed. It's always total points divided by total games, however those points are achieved. 10 draws or 5 wins and 5 losses makes no difference!
Jul 12, 2016
0
#47
Lasker1900 wrote:
Of course the French is a perfectly good defense, the best players in the world play it with either color. The loud opinions of some random yokel in a Chess,com forum don't really count for anything
Which "yokel" are you referring to? Me? Or the fool that thinks that 3...Nf6 scores better when even his own database counters what he says? Last I looked, 43.6% is greater than 42.35%. That's not opinion, that's fact for that one database. Now, of course, to get the true percentage, you'd need every game played, every database available, etc. But his basis for his argument was that specific database, and even that database thru fact contradicts his claim!
yo good good
ThrillerFan wrote:
Lasker1900 wrote:
Of course the French is a perfectly good defense, the best players in the world play it with either color. The loud opinions of some random yokel in a Chess,com forum don't really count for anything
Which "yokel" are you referring to? Me? Or the fool that thinks that 3...Nf6 scores better when even his own database counters what he says? Last I looked, 43.6% is greater than 42.35%. That's not opinion, that's fact for that one database. Now, of course, to get the true percentage, you'd need every game played, every database available, etc. But his basis for his argument was that specific database, and even that database thru fact contradicts his claim!
am i that fool? if no then ok!!!
pestebalcanica wrote:
i have played this opening 1000000 times.. this never happened.
yuri i like french