If Qg4 is really so bad, then why was it a favorite of Botvinnik in his playing days?
I will reveal you a deep secret.
It wasn't.
Factly, Botvinnik wasn't employing 1.e4 as white - he had played only the Black hand of this (as well as similar ones) position.
Please check your facts better next time.
You're right. Even still, the C17 Winawer Variation in 276 games in the DB shows White with a 44% win rate to 34% with 5... Ne7. Without 5... Ne7, it is only a 48% winner in 276 games as opposed to less tan 33% for Black
Your line with g6 only allows White to win 80% of the time (what no 100% win rate?) This must really be an unsound line for White to adopt. Glad it is never seen in tournament play.
Oh and while it is true Botvinnik did not adopt it as a staple in his arsenal as IM Pfren asserts, Botvinnik did in fact play the White pieces in at least 3 games, albeit not the C17 variations (though he did as Black) and apparently, he seemed to suffer more losses than wins against all variations of the French so I stand corrected there.
Finally even if you play the Moscow you can still reach the poisoned pawn variation by transposition a couple of moves later (PO-TAY-TO, PO-tah-to).
Really, it is quite hilarious that for as much as chess players know of the game, that a lot of players are so emotionally stunted (and I thought only Fischer was maladjusted. Oh well....)
Oh, and if Botvinnik was not employing 1. e4 as White, why is there an entire section of the Caro-Khan named after him ("Arbiter, someone else is playing Mikhail's games. He's playing [GASP], 1. e4!!!! I demand a forfeiture.")
And yes Pfren, I am well aware of Botvinnik's tendencies as his playing style is one I have tried to incorporate into my game play and I have a collection of 570 of his games to study from. Perhaps you might try to figure out if someone is jerking one's chain sometime, as I was. 
Errr, you may mean the Panov/Botvinnik attack of the Caro.
Botvinnik contributed a lot to its theory, but he never opened with 1.e4: This position can occur from Queen's gambit, as well as the English opening (both solidly in Botvinnik's opening repertoire.
He has also played the Caro as Black, many times, although his main weapon (lifetime) was the French.
Checking my database, I can find him playing 1.e4 related openings 63 times, out of 874 games in the database- and some of them did not start with 1.e4.
@metaknight251:
Finally, a player who can understand how to (waiiiiiiit forrrrr it): TRANSPOSE INTO AN OPENING.
Perhaps we Americans might have a chance of resurrecting a legitimate chess community after all.
BTW: How much credibility can you put into a site that gives out its own "Titles" to people who reach a certain ratings ceiling. I mean, we have GMs that are 200-400 points higher than any active FIDE/USCF player in the world? I guess I could give myself a real air of authority if I were to get my rating up to 2200+ at some point were it not for three things:
1. I do not play chess to accumulate points (I play the game to play the game).
2. Everyone knows that most players that are above the 1800 ratings level are likely using an engine, especially in correspondence chess (NOTE: if you have to take the side of saying, 'No I don't', you probably do).
3. When it is all said and done, the only real chess that matters is true OTB/Tournament play, period. Blitz is good for learning openings and playing tactics but if you ask an IM or GM, it is not worth much else. Correspondence is rife with engine users. Only when you can see your opponenent OTB and know that once the hand touches the piece it must go somewhere and that his move is his own, nothing else matters.
But, alas, I digress.....
MK251 is spot on, if I see 5. Qg4, I want to see the full poisoned pawn variation and not some patzer move like 5... g6 or even 6... f6?!
Yeah, yeah, that's right PP is full of homself but if it is too much to stomach, I hear they are pretty accepting of -------- in Farmville.
Of course accepting the variation fully does not lead to a loss, but ti's still best to avoid taking the pawn.
The game is perfectly even.
The game is perfectly even.
This line is known to be bad for white since Jansa- Kortchnoi, Luhacovice 1969.
@metaknight251:
Finally, a player who can understand how to (waiiiiiiit forrrrr it): TRANSPOSE INTO AN OPENING.
Move order is important. Your opponent doesn't always play along. If all it did was transpose into a main line, no one would bother commenting on it. There are some players much better than you commenting on it. If you want to talk about hope for the chess community, I'd mention a willingness to keep your mouth shut and your ears open.
The game is perfectly even.
This line is known to be bad for white since Jansa- Kortchnoi, Luhacovice 1969.
I guess you're right there.
*pisses on this post* *untracks*
No one honestly cates. You're an amauter anyway.
A perfectly even game.
I don't think theory favors openings which "boast" equality for white after the 5th move.
I don't know enough about the french to comment more specifically than that. I've been told before though that Qg4 on move 5 is too early (I dabbled in the french for a little bit).
Well, all openings lead to an even game, in effect. It's only the fault of players that loss is possible.
There are some terrible openings out there, but even they are considered playable, since there is no logical way in which to punish them.
Well, all openings lead to an even game, in effect. It's only the fault of players that loss is possible.
There are some terrible openings out there, but even they are considered playable, since there is no logical way in which to punish them.
This must take the prize for clueless BS in chess opening theory misunderstanding.
No, Spudnik, it's a fact. {erfect play leads to a draw everytime, reagrdless of the opening.
Carlsen focuses very little on opening theory and manages to do just fine.
If Qg4 is really so bad, then why was it a favorite of Botvinnik in his playing days? Once Black has commited the f8 Bishop, g7 is a hole. Qxg7 is still possible on move 6 even if Black plays Ne7 as Ng6 following allows White the ability to escape to h6. Also, Rg8 for Black is no solid answer as Qxh7 is playable too. Even declining to take at h7 is OK with Qh6 and now Black is stuck in the middle. The g pawn is hardly poisoned here. Where Black goes wrong in the OP is f6, though Ng7 to arrive here instead shows over 40% win as White compared to 31% in the database.
Here is the main line Winawer and it has a win percentage of almost 47% to White and 33% to Black the move order is: