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French Defense Query

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Boumsy

Hi all Laughing

I've been trying to build my opening repetoire recently and have tried out some different openings as a consequence.  The problem which I have found when playing the French defense, as black, is that the play I gain on the Queen's side is never enough to prevent the overwhelming attack white gains on my castled king.  I know its a great opening in principle and I don't want to give up on it too easily but as it stands, my pieces always end up too far away from the king to provide enough defense against white attacks.

Hopefully, I am looking for someone to provide a variation for black, in the French defense lines, which somehow account for this.  Other advice is obviously also appreciated, perhaps by suggesting that the French doesn't always have to account with a Queen side expansion for black.

Thanks very much, I look forward to your comments.

Boumsy

Hypocrism

I'm also new to the French but bought a repertoire book for the french which covers most of the variations. The french has to incorporate queenside expansion for black due to the pawns on e6 and d5 pointing that way. In terms of stopping the attack, it's often beneficial to get a knight to f5 via e7 or h6 especially in lines where white plays Qg4. In addition, if white has played e5 which he does in a lot of cases in classical, winawer or advance variations, you should be looking to play ...c5 and ...f6 to demolish his centre, advance your own pawns and then your pieces will be active enough to counter his kingside attack.

Boumsy

Ok excellent, thank you very much.  Definitely worth a try, mind you the knight to h6 is often meant by a bishop capture and this tears open the castled position in many of my games.

Xerxes74u

I UNDERSTOOD UR PROBLEM THE MOMENT I READ THE HEADING....I HAD D SAME QUERY WHEN I FIRST SAW THE OPENING....

BLACKS SETS UP A WALL OF PAWNS IN THE CENTER..UR PROBLEM SEEMS TOO MINUTE COMPARED TO THE DIFFICULTY IN ACHIEVING SCOPE FOR THE QUEEN BISHOP..

MOST OF THE GAMES I ANALYZED SHOWED ME BETTER TO CASTLE QUEEN SIDE...KEEPIN MOST PIECES NEAR THE KING IS ONE OF THE SAFEST WAYS TO WIN A GAME...

(oops!! sorry about the capital letters...im too lazy to change em now...:-)....)

Elubas

I hope you don't advance ...c5-c4 too often!

A lot of times black does play on the queenside, but the key to black's play is keeping that potential to play in the center with ...c5 and ...f6. It keeps white off balance. In many of the classical 3 Nc3 lines, like for example 3...Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 or 5 Nce2, intending c3, white holds the center for the time being but it's hard for him to do much against black's solid position, because trying to attack on the kingside takes his pieces away from the attacked center in turn maybe giving black the chance to grab it. So black should be having his priority on the center most of the time, only attacking on the queenside when it's hard for white to make progress on the kingside.  Other times like in 3 e5 lines black has enough time to go all out against white's pawn chain and try to totally take it over.

Boumsy

Ok, thank you all very much for the feedback.  It's interesting to hear that the c5-c4 move to lock up the position isn't advised and also the ...f6 break idea is new to me.  Hopefully with these I will have a bit more luck Laughing

mitchellhan

actually black doesn't even need to castle in the advance variation 

i mean look at the pawn structure white can't open the position and get to the king by then black would have castled kingside 

Elubas

Actually, sometimes castling opens up new possibilities for black. I was going over some line in the steinitz, and there were occasions where black would want to castle a little quickly so that he could play ...f6. In some cases it would threaten ...fxe5 followed by ...Rxf3, to soften up d4.

I really believe that players shouldn't set in their mind one way or the other -- just look at the precise position in front of you before moving your hands.

chessnerdbird

http://blog.chess.com/dblackw2/my-game-against-a-grandmaster

This is a game that I, as black, played against a GM.  He played the advanced variation which goes: 1. e4, e6 2. d4, d5 3. e5, c5 4. c3, Nc6 5. Nf3

Basically, the thematic breaks are ...c5 and ...f6.  However, ... f6 typically has to happen after ...cxd4.  

I have studied the advanced variation pretty in-depth and am now currently working on the Tarrasch variation which is 3. Nd2.  

Another important tip for the advanced variation, if you can get rid of White's king bishop you may have a better game.

 

A book that I am studying right now for the French defense is "The Flexible French" by Viktor Moskalenko.  He has also written a book titled, "The Wonderful Winawer".  I would suggest looking into both of these books.  For me, the French is a solid and good opening with plenty of counter-attacking opportunities.  

 

If you want to play some unrated games of the French just to get a better idea of it, please send me the challenges.  I will be happy to work through this with you.  As it is hard to give the points of an opening with so many ideas in a simple forum post. 

mitchellhan

Never!!! Never " Advanced Variation"!! It's Advance Variation!!

Elubas
Estragon wrote:
Elubas wrote:

Actually, sometimes castling opens up new possibilities for black. I was going over some line in the steinitz, and there were occasions where black would want to castle a little quickly so that he could play ...f6. In some cases it would threaten ...fxe5 followed by ...Rxf3, to soften up d4.

I really believe that players shouldn't set in their mind one way or the other -- just look at the precise position in front of you before moving your hands.


 

"On the contrary, one learns the landscape of a pawn structure through experience. "

Agreed, but this isn't inconsistent with the philosophy I mentioned.

"The ideas do not change at all.  The tactics and outcome can vary by the various juxtapositioning of the armies, but the ideas are the same, only the means and opportunities to use or resist them are altered."

Hmm... but this last bit is pretty significant! It reminds me of when I first saw the movie Anchorman and it started out with "this is a true story; only the characters, places, and the events (what actually happens) have been changed."

Indeed, the correct thing to do in a position can be one thing, and then if you slide a pawn to a6, it becomes unsound!

"I have seen some relatively early ...0-0 in the Steinitz, more in the 5 f4 lines, but the number of games in these lines relative to the overall number in the pawn structure is very tiny, not significant enough to affect my original advice based on practical experience.   ...0-0 can be good when it is safe, but it isn't usually safe in French structures with e5 pawn chain. "

Maybe I'm not playing it right, but this is what I usually do: 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 Nf3 Nc6 7 Be3 (I hope I'm remembering this correctly) Be7 8 Qd2, and now, black can castle or play ...a6 and continue to build on the q side; but is it really that easy for white to attack if black were to castle? The only thing that could be dangerous is some quick f5 lunge (since otherwise white has very few open lines), but it tends to allow black to win the center pawns (since it significantly weakens e5) and, as a result, centralize and open up his pieces to an extent, possibly even winning material. Sure, white can gain space on the kingside more deliberately, with say h4-h5, but it's pretty darn slow, wouldn't you agree? It's probably no faster than black's queenside build-up, and black has the advantage that his center is much less likely to collapse.

Actually, working with houdini I am of the opinion that black may as well castle, because that way if white plays something passive or decentralizing black is always ready for a quick ...f6 strike to dramatically increase the tension. Of course, houdini can't always be trusted, but I have played out the variations to see why houdini was recommending what it was, and I haven't seen anything concretely wrong with an early ...0-0 in the line I gave above.

In short, I think castling kingside in the french is underrated -- it's not as bad as it looks if you ask me.


keshav_s_delhi

Hi I have to ask that whether we can castle queenside in french and caro kann . Is there any attack on queenside from white . Please reply soon and vry fast.