French Defense Surprises

Something like this maybe?

vs the Advance, I like neither 4...cxd4, nor 4...c4, I'd suggest you to look at 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 which already puts a lot of pressure on White. Alternatively there is 4...Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 which attempts to play Bb5 and exchange the LSB asap.

A line which is slightly dodgy but has great surprise value vs 6.a3 (in the mainline shown in the previous post) is 6...f6 and it leads to dynamic play - you can look up the details on your own. The main move against a3 is 6...c4 completely closing the queenside

Vs 6.Be2 there is 6...cxd4 7 cxd4 Nh6 with the idea of Nf5 to directly assault the center

Vs 6.Bd3 we take with the pawn and then play Bd7, before taking the pawn

Multiple people have mentioned 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6. One suggestion, and that is the line I play myself, as opposed to 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 or the highly dubious 4...Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7?!.

If you play the line 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6, flip the moves. 4...Qb6! 5.Nf3 Nc6!. The reason is simple. 4...Nc6 allows the sideline 5.Be3 Qb6 6.Qd2. By flipping the moves, 5.Be3 would lose to 5...Qxb2.

Also, after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6! 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.a3, 6...cxd4 is a mistake. White can recapture and play Nc3 with the knight protected. The line 6...Nh6?! Is also now dubious because of a fairly new idea for White in the line 7.b4 cxd4 and only now 8.Bxh6! If you want to try to get the line 6...Nh6 7.b4 cxd4 8.cxd4 Nf5, you now have to play 6...Nge7, but that allows other sidelines for White and 7.b4 is not forced.

The best move after 6.a3 is 6...c4 7.Nbd2 Na5 8.Be2 Bd7 with the normal Nge7, Nc8, Qc7, Nb6, etc.

Now, if you want a surprise, in that line, normal is for Black to break through the Queenside after castling long with ...Ba4, and Nb3 or Bc2 depending. A surprise idea that is OK is to bring the rooks to the kingside and break through that way instead of on the queenside.

play the 3.b6 idea.

it plays very different in that , unlike a traditional advanced french where black gets ferocious pressure early on, and if white plays well , calms down (but the pressure never fully dissipates) 3.b6 plays slow but the longer the game drags on, the more the favorable pawn color and remaining bishop complex manifests.

since when is 6.nh6!? dubious? engine says 0.1

First off, engines are bad with openings and hence why they need opening books built in. And engines sometimes only see something after it is played. And I said dubious, not "bad". One of the strongest engines out there, actually combining 16 engines, gives 6...Nh6 7.b4 cxd4 8.Bxh6! as +0.24, but also, Black's position is significantly harder to handle with far more only moves, and so when you combine the human element, the move is deemed dubious by most recent analysts and publications on the French. For example, the updated edition from 2021 or 2022 on The Fully Fledged French, the update to The Even More Flexible French. An engine might still be able to draw the position. A human won't. 6...Nge7 is the way to go if you don't want to play 6...c4. It can transpose to the line with 8...Nf5, which is fine, without allowing the strong 8.Bxh6!

That seems like a decent suggestion to save work. I do not mind the line with Be3 Qd2 (quite comfortable for Black, and Qb6 is not forced), so I'm not sure whether I keep my move order to deliberately allow it. I'll have to look into it a bit more. Is there any downside to switching Qb6 and Nc6? I don't see any at first glance

this whole engines are bad at openings is more 2010 than 2026, now strong players ignore old wisdom and play computer backed novelties based on their evaluations.
after 6.a3 , 6...nge7 is like the 6th most popular move among master games, and 7.dxc5 gives white a larger than average advantage compared to other lines. You sure you are not talking about another line?

Actually, the Nge7 line is without Qb6.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c4 Nc6 5.Nf3 5...Nge7 is a line. dxc5 is nothing. 5...Nh6 is another, although risky and not highly tested. The lack of inclusion of 5...Qb6 makes a difference here.

And as far as GMs, they don't do what you claim. They load opening book programs that they created into it. They don't just blindly ask some random engine what the best move is for White after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5. Only dumb clowns (predominantly kids) think that they can validate the best counter to the French on move 3 just by blindly running a single chess engine. Long time analysis has shown that 3.Nc3 is White's best move, and 3.e5 has surpassed 3.Nd2 in strength from many of the recent ideas founded between 2007 and the early 20s.

If you flick in 5...Qb6 6.a3, then now-a-days, 6...c4 is really Black's most reliable method because of 8.Bxh6!

when in the heck did i mention GM's just steal the first thing engine spouts out will-nilly? obviously they re-check what the engine says by 1. playing deeper to see if the eval changes as one trims lines 2. see what picture the database shows 3. preference. But Top players pay less and less attention to what was once theoretical gospel because engines are finding concrete considerations that override the common wisdom. The rest is how difficult/worth it a line is.
Ahh yes, that makes more sense (5.nge7) I think i recall seeing it in a book where it is supposed to be a low memory line which gives black decent results.

Any sane person plays 7...Bd7 here. Hard to find victims who fall for this

I have zero idea what black is trying to achieve here? Pawn structure is shaky as all get out. White king extremely safe. White pawn center is not easily attacked. Black king still in a vulnerable position. Ooh two outside passed pawns on the the 7th rank. Very scary. Oh wait I have an extra piece. Absolute worst case scenario I can trade the piece back to take out the pawns, but I doubt I'll need to. Nc3 and white can already force a queen trade or d5 falls.

No, the only downside is it reduces Black's options. By playing 4...Qb6, you don't have the option of the Gulko line, 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7.

I am not saying everyone should play 4...Qb6, I am just saying that if your idea is to play the line with 5...Qb6 anyway, then swap the moves. If you prefer 5...Bd7 or 5...Nge7, then you have to play 4...Nc6. Never said 4...Nc6 was bad.

There is a similar move order debate in the Winawer. 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 and now, Black has the main line, 6...Ne7, the now dubious 6...Qc7, planning to answer 7.Qg4 with 7...f5, but that is better for White, and 6...Qa5, the Portisch-Hook.

Well, here, if you plan to play the Portisch-Hook, then you have to play 4...c5. If you plan to play the main line, answering 7.Qg4 with the Poisoned-Pawn, 7...O-O, or 7...Kf8, then you can invert moves 4 and 6, playing 4...Ne7 and 6...c5. The advantage to that is it makes 5.Bd2 less attractive for White as the c-pawn still covers d6, where the Knight wants to go in that line with Nb5 coming. If you play the Portisch-Hook, you must play 4...c5.

The only downside to that is if you are like me, and play the Portisch-Hook, Poisoned-Pawn, and Eingorin (7...Kf8), and you have been around me long enough to know I play all 3, then you know the script, and if I play 4...c5, the Portisch-Hook is coming if you go 5.a3, while 4...Ne7 you know will be the main line, so it gives White info early, but I don't play the Winawer to win in the first 10 moves. I play to win the long game, which almost all endings favor Black due to the pawn structure.

Did you ever consider that engines might actually be what found White's strong move 8.Bxh6, making the 6...Nh6 line dubious? The ideas back in 2007 were other findings. The latter years in that range were mostly the 8.Bxh6 idea and not recapturing the pawn in the milner-barry, instead playing 7.O-O and leaving the Black pawn on d4 (specifically in the 5...Qb6 line).

The Advance French has gone through a lot of transformations over the last 20 years, most of them in White's favor, which is why I say that it is stronger than the Tarrasch, which has seen Black with the Trump cards. They have basically proven that the Tarrasch is so slow that Black can soundly get away with 3...a6, 3...h6, even 3...Nc6, previously thought to be dubious, and that the traditional 3...Nf6 is still sound and 3...c5 still equalizer.

3.Nc3 will always remain White's strongest move, but the arrow has pointed up for White in the Advance for the last 20 years and down in the Tarrasch. Not that the Tarrasch is refuted - it's basically just as benign as the Exchange.

Okay

here is a tricky line i learned which can also be played a reply agaisnt 3.c3 in the sicilian 0'kelly

and 5.bd3