good defence for the dpawn specials?

any suggestion on this? im starting to realise that 8 of 10 games i play against after 1.d4 ends up in a londonsystem or colle or something like that and i feel i have to play against the mainline and straight into their theori in all of those lines. perhaps something like the dutch would avoid that stuff? i like playing the tarrasch defence as black and i like all the lines for black but what does it help when most of my games goes into a londonsystem

thanks for tips but i play 1...e5 against 1.e4

I don't have any suggestions for defenses, but I don't think you should be so worried about them that you have to change your response to d4. IMO once you're familiar with how to tackle them you'll actually be glad that you're playing against stuff which is probably giving you a more comfortable game than if you were playing against the Queen's Gambit for instance.

tigergutt, I would definitely recommend the Dutch.  I have played that system for years, and I never grow tired of it.  There are many sub-variations to choose, but one thing is for certain - you have gained a kingside initiative from the move GO.  Understanding some of the pawn structures will help you achieve your attacks.  If you are a fan of pushing e4 quickly, then try the Classical or the Leningrad.  But I have been playing a lot of Stonewalls recently, and doing pretty well with it - the play is always interesting, and you always have winning chances.  With some of these other systems, like the London, there are more chances for a draw, but this is a snooze system.  You want something hearty, right?  

Learn the tricks of the Staunton Gambit - a timely ...Nc6-e5-f7, and you will do fine otherwise.  

BTW, against a London setup with the Stonewall, you can play as follows and still get a good game!

Just keep playing Tarrasch type moves.  Against almost every d-pawn special in existence, the critical line, and the one that keeps it from being played so often in GM practice, is an early c5.  Often in combination with a quick Qb6, sice the bishop is usually off doing something other than defending b2.

I've come to nearly always play 1 ... Nf6 against d4, and whether or not he plays 2. c4 I play 2 ...g6 and go into a King's Indian.  A very solid defence, not hard to learn and I have good success with it - White often overextends himself against it with the 3- or 4-pawn attack, and dashes himself to pieces against the rocky shore of my fianchetto.  ;)

The biggest advantage is you don't have nearly so many lines to learn as if you reply 1 ...d5, QGD, QGA, Benoni etc etc.  Just the good old KI.

Yes.  Unless I'm mistaken, the move sequence 1...d5 2...Nf6 3...c5 is the mainline vs the London, and scores over 50% for black, although that number is a tad misleading, since in general, the DB's are full of London games where white is the weaker player in general.  Practically, it probably simply leads to early equality with practical chances for both players.

The downside to all of this are white lines that go 1.d4 2.Nf3.

Against these, the critical d-pawn special responses mostly require delaying e6.  The e6/d5/c5 setup works fine against them all, but gives white his standard opening plus.  Of course, that can be dodged by going 1...d5 2...Nf6, readying a quick c5 to get into the critical, testing lines.

But then, if white goes 3.c4, you're out of Tarrasch territory.

I think it's worth the tradeoff.  I'd play 1.d4 d5, 2.Nf3 Nf6, when if white plays almost any d-pawn special, you're ready for 3...c5, and if white plays c4, you play e6 and suffer certain varieties of the QGD complex.  The good news is that the best lines of the QGD exchange are gone for white.  4.Nc3 c5, and you're back in territory that will be comfortable to a Tarrasch player.   4.Bg5 will require an independent line, but if you head for a known QGD line that features an early c5, you shouldn't feel too unfamiliar with the resulting positions and piece placements.  Lots of lines from that position with Be7, 0-0, and c5...just typically with Nbd7 instead of Nc6.  Shouldn't put you off too badly, as a Tarrasch guy, to have to play like this.

If you like sharp positions, want to play for a win, and hate d-pawn specials, then you should try the Leningrad Dutch! The london and colle set-ups make no sense against it, but be prepared for 2.Bg5 and 2.Nc3 as those are very dangerous anti-dutch systems!

An early c5 isn't "cute."  To say so that is to denigrate it, and try to turn the OP off to what is clearly black's most principled and testing response to white's passive move order.

You played well, but the fact is, the line following dxc5 scores well over 50% for black, according to both GM databases AND amateur ones, and while it may give you nice practical chances if you're more familiar than your opponent, it's still objectively very good for black.

many good posts here since last i checked:) i didnt knew shankland had  videos on it. i will check it out. i also realized by learning the leningrad dutch i also know enough to play the bird as white which fits me good since i play the kings gambit it can transpose into. its not easy to decide

The point is that the main line IS an early c5. Other lines aren't as good, so they shouldn't be considered main line.

1. d4 nf6

I play d4 and I was smile inwardly when someone plays Nc6 blocking the c-pawn because then white can develop with great peace and prepareto advance in the center.  I think c5 is a great counter for black.  Of course the Slav and the Dutch are also fine. 

Do not change your repertoire just to stay out of Colle or London territory!  I tried the Dutch but I never got it.  Just play Tarrasch type moves and you should be fine.  Realize that these are solid systems where white doesn't offer up many targets.

I think it's better for you to play the early c5 lines that can get similar to the tarrash: learning an opening from scratch it's not necessary and there's the problem with the fact that your opponent against the dutch, or any other opening in wich the london and colle aren't very useful, could play the main lines or could have other surprises and that means that you'll need to learn another lot of theory.