Good openings for Black?

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JonathanIrizarry

I just can't play the Sicilian or the Caro-Kann. I don't know why, but I always fail at using it. What other good openings are there for Black?

chessnerdbird

Against e4 or d4?

I strictly will play the french against e4, and I think I'm going with the Tarrasch against d4.  

JonathanIrizarry

Oh sorry....for both :P

Thanks, I'll try the French and the Tarrasch.

Khawer_Khan

This is a question I wanted to ask too. I'm a beginner, and I want to know what a good opening to learn is for someone thats pretty green. 

Arctor

Against e4, 1...e5 is a must when you're a beginner. Play a Philidor, a main-line Spanish, a Giuco Piano, Two Knights...whatever, just learn to play classically before messing with the hypermoderns or the semi-opens

Against d4, play 1...d5

Against c4 or anything else, just play chess

James_Bond_Fan

forget about openings and their names. I guess 90-99% of openings there are published here I don't know. I started with basics and checked out Giuco Piano, Reti, Frensh, Sicilian first. Very soon I was fed up learning very long opening trees by heart since after a very short period of time I'd forgotten them anyway. This turned me to a basic contemplating of the game: not learning by heart but start to comprehend how this game is working. Just learn how your pieces have to be conducted to beat your opponent. Very important is not a single piece. It must be a team. Your pieces have to be a team. No solists are allowed.

This means: no unguarded pieces, no matter of their value. They all have to stick together. If you move a pawn ahead there must be support, otherwise it will be a target. But this is not enough. It is the same thing for the squares. And the most important thing to figure might be to recognize the right moment to let go and start the big KILL.

have fun

algorab
Arctor wrote:

Against e4, 1...e5 is a must when you're a beginner. Play a Philidor, a main-line Spanish, a Giuco Piano, Two Knights...whatever, just learn to play classically before messing with the hypermoderns or the semi-opens

Against d4, play 1...d5

Against c4 or anything else, just play chess


 Two Knights? You can be Fried Livered with the 2N ... You must know what you're doing isn't it? Isn't the French safer? f7 is protected there and white cannot throw millions gambits at you like with e5 ...

Arctor
algorab wrote:
Arctor wrote:

Against e4, 1...e5 is a must when you're a beginner. Play a Philidor, a main-line Spanish, a Giuco Piano, Two Knights...whatever, just learn to play classically before messing with the hypermoderns or the semi-opens

Against d4, play 1...d5

Against c4 or anything else, just play chess


 Two Knights? You can be Fried Livered with the 2N ... You must know what you're doing isn't it? Isn't the French safer? f7 is protected there and white cannot throw millions gambits at you like with e5 ...


 Isn't it much safer to not play at all?

It's not about being safe, it's about learning how to play chess

MyCowsCanFly

Maybe you could do both.

Play e4 as White and try to get an open, tactical game. Then, you will probably encounter d4 as Black so, try to play something more closed and positional.

The contrast might be good. As Carroll Shelby once said, "You can't teach the concept of red without examples of not red."

I suppose in the end, it's whatever keeps you playing.

algorab
Arctor wrote:
algorab wrote:
Arctor wrote:

Against e4, 1...e5 is a must when you're a beginner. Play a Philidor, a main-line Spanish, a Giuco Piano, Two Knights...whatever, just learn to play classically before messing with the hypermoderns or the semi-opens

Against d4, play 1...d5

Against c4 or anything else, just play chess


 Two Knights? You can be Fried Livered with the 2N ... You must know what you're doing isn't it? Isn't the French safer? f7 is protected there and white cannot throw millions gambits at you like with e5 ...


 Isn't it much safer to not play at all?

It's not about being safe, it's about learning how to play chess


 Ok but you'll have to pay a price in losses and if you're talking about tactics you can solve puzzles instead

DonnieDarko1980

In the French, f7 is quite safe, but instead you have h7 to worry about :)

TheOldReb

3... Be7 is the hungarian defense and is third most popular choice , behind only Bc5 and Nf6. It is passive but I wouldnt say its bad given that it scores about the same as 3...Bc5.  

tonymtbird
Reb wrote:

3... Be7 is the hungarian defense and is third most popular choice , behind only Bc5 and Nf6. It is passive but I wouldnt say its bad given that it scores about the same as 3...Bc5.  


 just because something scores well that doesn't make it good. it's possible that all human chess players could be wrong about a paticular line-even in a "tried and tested" old line.  The best example is probably the kings gambit, until about 1990ish(when people started using computers to help them study chess) it was still scoring around 55% but if you look at games since then the score drops quite a lot per year, since 2004 it's scored 42.3% in my database (989 games).

TheOldReb
tonymtbird wrote:
Reb wrote:

3... Be7 is the hungarian defense and is third most popular choice , behind only Bc5 and Nf6. It is passive but I wouldnt say its bad given that it scores about the same as 3...Bc5.  


 just because something scores well that doesn't make it good. it's possible that all human chess players could be wrong about a paticular line-even in a "tried and tested" old line.  The best example is probably the kings gambit, until about 1990ish(when people started using computers to help them study chess) it was still scoring around 55% but if you look at games since then the score drops quite a lot per year, since 2004 it's scored 42.3% in my database (989 games).


Did I say it was good ?  I dont see where I said that. I said its not bad and I stand by that. It scores about 44% as black and thats not bad. 

NimzoRoy

arctor wrote: Against e4, 1...e5 is a must when you're a beginner. Play a Philidor, a main-line Spanish, a Giuco Piano, Two Knights...whatever, just learn to play classically before messing with the hypermoderns or the semi-opens  Against d4, play 1...d5  

I second the motion! So does GM Reti in his classic work Masters of the Chessboard, in which he states that beginners need to learn open games first,  ahead of semi-open and closed games. Studying tactics and basic endgames will also improve your play.

As for the Hungarian Defense, I agree with NM Reb: it's not bad. Personally I've never considered playing it but in my very limited experience vs it as White my results were disappointing ie draws.

BattleManager

I hate playing against the French and i believe a lot of white players also hate facing that defense so you could try it out. If you're starting at chess, i'd play 1.e5 and after 2.Nf3 2.Nc6. I don't recommend the philidor because it seems a bit passive to me and i don't think who is beginning at chess should develop his/her pieces passively.

JonathanIrizarry

Okay, I stopped reading these posts at "lol he's 800".

Yes, I'm 800, but that's because I don't play too much here. I lost a few games at first just to get a hang of an opening and haven't really played any Rated games again x_x

I mostly play in my Chess Club, where I actually take my time to play, and it makes it easier for me to visualize moves when I have a real board in front of me.

Disregard my rating here, because I honestly don't care about it. I come here for the Forums.

beardogjones

Which opening for white most annoys black players?

[I agree the French is anoying for white].

Andre_Harding

I agree that the French is the most annoying opening for White players.

However, I agree completely with Arctor, AnthonyCG, and Reb: Play 1.e4, against 1.e4  play 1...e5. I also recommend the Hungarian Defense to my students, and they score VERY well with it in tournaments.

The Hungarian Defense is a little bit passive, but not that much, and White has to play really well to get much of anything out of the opening.

At lower levels, the Hungarian is DEFINITELY is better than having a memorization game in the Giuoco or Two Knights. Often, my students get an advantage out of the opening with Black.

BattleManager
Andre_Harding wrote:

I agree that the French is the most annoying opening for White players.

However, I agree completely with Arctor, AnthonyCG, and Reb: Play 1.e4, against 1.e4  play 1...e5. I also recommend the Hungarian Defense to my students, and they score VERY well with it in tournaments.

The Hungarian Defense is a little bit passive, but not that much, and White has to play really well to get much of anything out of the opening.

At lower levels, the Hungarian is DEFINITELY is better than having a memorization game in the Giuoco or Two Knights. Often, my students get an advantage out of the opening with Black.


I agree that the Hungarian is completely playable but players must be aware of some little traps like for example: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Be7 4.d4 exd4 5.c3 dxc3?! 5.Qd5.