I've never seen that line before. I suppose after a brief pause, I would play 2.d4 controlling the center and simultaneously attacking his g-pawn. The d-pawn is already defended by the queen so 2...Bg7 is not too worrying and if 2...h6 he's wasting time. One must be careful about Nf3, of course.
"Grob Defense"? (1. e4 g5)
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2. d4 would likely be the main consideration. 2. ... e6 looks like an interesting response. 2... e6 and Bh6 look like the stronger responses. I've never seen the 'grob defense' employed either (except by my own hand) but it looks to have some interesting things going on within it. At worst it is dubious but useable, and it certainly deserves exploration.
(Again, open move list to view variations.)
EDIT - 2. Nf6 is a BAD move. After 2. ... e5, Black will lose a knight or a pawn and be stuck in a bad position. Ill do some more analysis on this later.
in response to your second post WEdgards, following that line with 5... f6, I think that instead of Nd3 you should try and find a good response to 6.Ng6, because the rook is attacked and it can't move to h6 or you drop an exchange so after 6...Rh7, 7.Nxf8 Kxf8 8. fxg4 white is going to be up a pawn, have the bishop pair, black's king would be loose, and that game would probably end pretty quickly.
Try looking at something like this. It's just a quick look at what could happen, there is probably much better for both sides, but this speaks to how unnerving the position can become for black.
Interesting line, though very touchy for black. I suppose it could be a hypermodern defense but with pawns as well as pieces controlling the flanks? At any rate it would seem important to develop the Q-side quickly to castle away from the messy K-side.
Certainly, that would be a good idea, but in proper circumstances castling is not an absolute necessity (sp?).
@erad: 6. ... nxd4 is not necessary. 6. ... f5, Rxg2, d5 are good choices as well:
From this, 6. ... d5 looks preferable for black.
There's a crazy cult following for the Grob on www.redhotpawn.com. Use the search in the forums and you'll come up with some great games and ideas.
1 e4 g5 =
Reversed Grob (Borg/Basman defense/macho Grob) eco code = B00
I played a game using g5 against e4 where my opponent brought out the queen very early (second or third move) and it was giving me terrible trouble. I can't seem to find it in my game archive, but it was something to see. I'll post it here if I can find it.
And Basman has played some very strange games indeed...
I often play this line. It doesn´t work well against very good players (but then again, nothing does); it does otherwise. The thing is, don´t play f6 in the line above, but d6 or Bg7 with d6 later. That gives good chances.
The book King's Gambit talks a lot about the Grob, and how it's used by players for a quick win, even though they know it's easily refuted in standard time conditions.
It's an opening worth trying out for short blitz games, but not by any means an opening for serious play.
BTW, the Grob often leads to rather different situations than the Borg or whatever one should call 1.e4 g5. Mostly because the main line in Grob one gives away the g-pawn and plays c4, Qb3 etc, which mostly doesn´t happen in the Borg. Both Borg and Grob has aesthetic qualities I think, but not perhaps the kind of classic beauty Batgirl might prefer. It´s rather the beauty of absurdism.
I also play 1.e4 e5, 2. g4 Sf6, 3. Lg2... Try it!
Dec 10, 2007
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#15
"Batgirl, have you ever played the Grob ?? "
I've played against the Grob as black and the Reverse Grob defense as white with varying results - I believe mostly dependent on the relative strength of my opponents rather than the opening system employed.
What are the S's and L's for, mackan?
And Batgirl, If your success against the grob is not always consistent and you believe to be dependant on the relative strength of the opponent, does this not imply that it cannot be such a bad choice?
For me, I see one of the main qualities of the Grob attack (and the Borg def.) is its heavily tactical nature. For me, this is a plus, as I am not very good with tactics and it is a useful exercise. (And it also offers the possibility of a quick win from time to time, which is good.)
Dec 10, 2007
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#17
"Batgirl, If your success against the grob is not always consistent and you believe to be dependant on the relative strength of the opponent, does this not imply that it cannot be such a bad choice?"
No, it shows, as an irregular opening, that the person who initiates it is probably booked up on it. Whether or not it's a bad choice isn't for me to say, but I would suggest that if the "surprise" factor (or the thought that the opponent won't be very well versed in some of it's intricacies) is one of it's values as an opening choice, then I would have doubts about it's ultimate worth. But, mainly, I just find it, well, ugly. I think Botvinnik said that the Sicilian was fundamentally based on a trick. If that's true, then the Grob, or it's reverse, is based on a cheaper trick. But I willingly conceed that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Sorry, Sf6 means Nf6 and Lg2 Bg2 - in Swedish.
As Batgirl says, this opening is based on tricks, but so are very many openings. And tactical play can have wonderful results. As when Miles beat Karpov (1980 or so) by playing 1.e4 a6 as black.
Dec 11, 2007
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#19
As I said, I'm not qualified to judge the opening's real value as an opening choice. I tend to believe most openings are, at least, playable. I would say that if certain GMs have fallen victim to the tactics or traps, then it's probably because they were unfamiliar with the opening. There are many traps in other openings, but generally GMs don't fall for them because they're familiar with them. Once again, this brings us around to the "surprise" element, which, while it often wins points, isn't something, by itself, to recommend an opening (I'm not even saying that's all that recommends it). I would add that GM "should" be familiar with the opening, but like most things, there's diminishing returns. If the Grob or the Borg were encountered more frequently in tournament chess, it would probably cause professional players to be better prepared for it but there's only so much one can study. The Lopez is a common, well analyzed opening and a new sub-variation is a rare thing and, in fact, a desirable thing.
But really, I have nothing of value to say about the Grob's ultimate worth because I have no idea. My reserve isn't on the technical side, but rather the aesthetic side.
I have seen a brief mention of this, which basically said that it exists. Does anyone know anything about this opening (1. e4 g5)? I've played a few games with it since, but neither of us were playing our best. Open up the move list menu to view some of the varying possibilities.