How does one decide between Grunfeld or KID
Sort:
The same position is reached in the 5. Qa4 Bd7 6. Qb3 line, except black also has a bishop on d7. I don't believe in the 6. Qh4 line, as with accurate play black seems to equalize.
Now, for 4. Qa4+,
Is perfectly acceptable for black, and has been played on multiple ocasions by Grunfeld expert Svidler, vs players such as Topalov, Gelfand, and Grischuk. It has also been played by Kamsky, Giri, and multiple 2600s, and scores fine for black, although white probably does have a slight advantage.
Interesting thread. Am always happy to run across annotated master games in the Grunfeld online because the positions are often interesting (not that I understand them). Saw a nice hardcover of William Hartston's Grunfeld Defence at a used book store today... it was tempting, but I left it on the shelf thanks to this thread! :D
Check out this weird creature that popped up when I googled grunfeld:
I would say that KID gets more messy than any Grunfeld line. KID is for me comparable to the Sicilian Dragon. Very different, but very much attacking on different sides of the board and praying that you win by a couple of tempi... KID = pawn roller + attack on the king...
Grunfeld is in essence combinational play and endgame possibilities.
Grünfeld is objectively better. White gets the center and an attack, but black gets a long term endgame advantage with his queen's side pawn majority i.e. candidate passed pawn b6.
King's Indian Defence is not fully sound, but a great way to play for a win with black at higher risk of losing. Black gets an attack on the white king, but white gets a long term endgame advantage on the queen's wing.
Nov 21, 2021
0
#27
tygxc wrote:
Grünfeld is objectively better. White gets the center and an attack, but black gets a long term endgame advantage with his queen's side pawn majority i.e. candidate passed pawn b6.
King's Indian Defence is not fully sound, but a great way to play for a win with black at higher risk of losing. Black gets an attack on the white king, but white gets a long term endgame advantage on the queen's wing.
You are making the huge assumption that White plays the exchange variation. After cxd5, bxc3 on the knight trade, and cxd4 in a pawn trade on d4, yes, Black gets the 2-on-1 in an endgame.
But then you have the Russian System (4.Nf3), 4.Bf4 and 4.Bg5 lines, 4.e3 lines, etc, where said majority you talk about often does not exist.
So again, the points made 9 years ago are accurate. The Grunfeld requires the understanding of FAR more pawn structures.
The King's Indian has a TON of theory, but many lines are extremely similar. For example, there is no difference in the pawn structure in the Mar Del Plata vs the Petrosian. The difference is the piece placement. In the Petrosian, White looks to impede Black's Kingside play. In the Mar Del Plata, White tries to destroy Black's queenside to the point that he can claim victory if Black fails to get the King! But the pawn structure is exactly the same.
There are far more pawn structures in the Grunfeld. A good dozen or so. There are 5 in the King's Indian. The Petrosian/Mar Del Plata setup, The Benoni-Type setup (similar to the Petrosian but with c5 and e7 instead of e5 and c7), The Saemisch Setup, The Fianchetto Setup, and the Maroczy Bind setup (positions with cxd4 and White recaptures with a piece, like the 7.Be2 Four Pawns Attack, or with exd4 and White recaptures with a piece, like 7...exd4 8.Nxd4 Re8 9.f3 in the Classical King's Indian).
While theory is dense, having 5 structures and needing to worry more about the proper piece play for each line is less taxing than having to deL with a bajillion pawn structures.
It's like the Sicilian and the French. Both theory intensive, but far more Anti-Sicilians than Anti-Frenches exist. If the Grunfeld is the Sicilian, the King's Indian is the French!
Nov 21, 2021
0
#28
They're both excellent defenses.
However, it's worth noting that you can (if you want to) play the King's Indian against nearly any d4 setup.
You can only play the Grunfeld proper against d4+c4 setups.
If white refrains from playing c4 - for example, if you run into a London, Colle, or Torre player, where the c-pawn often goes to c3 - then you'll be playing something with a distinctly different flavor.
A friend of mine made the Grunfeld his rigid answer to 1.d4 and did very well with it. He was low 2300's OTB when he quit chess, which isn't too shabby. He also rigidly played the Catalan/Reversed-Grunfeld as White, guaranteeing he knew the themes thoroughly on both sides of the board. He bored the hell out of me :).