How fast should I castle?

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ChessOath
Puppet_master01 wrote:

Another catfish. This is becoming a theme

Oh really? God dammit, I only replied so that the OP would sleep with me Cry.

phonograph

Give your opponent odds of B and N and play 1 0-0!!

ArgoNavis

You should castle early 99.99% of the games.

noahs_dad
phonograph wrote:

Give your opponent odds of B and N and play 1 0-0!!

or play 1.e6 2.Nf6 3.Be7 4.0-0 or something similar and your (a) castled just 4 moves in, and (b) 2 Pieces better off than just giving them away.

whatadisaster

You should castle as fast as you can.  Using both hands is best.

Diakonia

I try and castle on move 2...its a long story...

thegreat_patzer

i doubt, with good play, in a mainline opening- that you can punish your opponent for castling at move 4,5.

so... if you Are able to punish the opponent by an early castling either:

  • You're playing a very aggressive opening
  • Or he making mistakes, like defending passively and not anticipating your moves.

the latter is very common with us patzers.  but just because in his blunderish game- you are able to summon a quick attack when he castles- this does NOT mean that the castling (at move 4-5) is a bad move. 

Diakonia

Queens on the board - within 10-12 moves.

Queens off the board - Not urgent, if at all.

Lines in the Benko Gambit you manually castle.

halfgreek1963

In under 2 seconds, preferably.

ChessOath
stuzzicadenti wrote:

Sometimes castling prematurely gives your opponent a target to throw his pawns forward and sacrifice his pieces to achieve checkmate. This happens often in the KID.

It does? I have very little experience playing the KID from either side but that doesn't sound right to me at all. Let me put it this way: I can't even work out which colour you're talking about.

thegreat_patzer

are you talking white stuzzi (KID)?

its seems to me that for white, castling within a few moves happens often and is safe.

my point isn't that castling is Always safe. oc its not. my point is that if you've properly developed- most of the time you CAN castle early (safely).

but... I've seen places where the castling WAS safe, but he defense was NOT and sometimes both chessplayers blame the castling without seeing the basic failures in defense.

ChessOath
stuzzicadenti wrote:

Obviously black castles first in the KID, but he does so at the expense of ceding control of the center to white, who castles a few moves later. Typically white gains control of the center with his pawns while black launches a kingside attack by putting his pieces on the flank. It's an opening that is very counter-intuitive to understand for beginners.

OK, so you sound like you're describing a lot of main line type of stuff. Explain to me how White has castled prematurely if it's the best move in a main(/ish) line that White is considered better in? Have I missed something? Have I misunderstood you somewhere?

thegreat_patzer

I HATE KID ... for either color.  (thought with a c4d4 reportoire I see it alot)

frankly mobilizing one's own pawns in front of the castled king, looks very counter-intuitive.  but I agree that often white can struggle to meet the threats.

but thats ALL the more reason why I said what I said to the OP.

if you fail to properly defend, noticing when you castle can be... irrelevant.  (though sometimes Castling IS part of good defense).  but for white, unless I'm very mistaken about theory- most KID lines see white castle short, and within 10 moves.

white's delay is also NOT because he's trying to counter/anticipate pawn storming- but Because in the KID, white usually builds a formidable pawn wall and has to defend and maintain it.

ChessOath
[COMMENT DELETED]
charousekchess84

Castling quickly, as a general rule, is ideal..but you should always take a good look at your opponents position before doing so.

JustADude80

Here is a game where Black castled into big trouble and lost.

https://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=1552959625

He would have been better off to have not castled at all.

noahs_dad
JustADude80 wrote:

Here is a game where Black castled into big trouble and lost.

https://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=1552959625

He would have been better off to have not castled at all.

Black was always losing that game, like 11.Nh5 which blunders the piece but white misses it. And the pawn grabbing. Or the undeveloped bishop on f8.

ChessOath
JustADude80 wrote:

Here is a game where Black castled into big trouble and lost.

https://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=1552959625

He would have been better off to have not castled at all.

The funniest thing about this isn't that the game was badly played, but rather that you're using it as am example of when not to castle (quickly?). That game is the perfect example of Black not castling early enough with developing moves that don't include the horendous Qe7. This game is an example of when Black should have castled early but didn't. Not an example of Black castling when he shouldn't (although that is also true).

JustADude80

ChessOath, good point.  Smile

However the lesson might be, "When it comes to castling, better late than never does not necessarily apply".  Wink

Dodger111

I don't remember what GM from the early 1900's said it , but it went something like this:

"Castle if you should or if you must, but never castle simply because you can"

Lasker? Tartakower? It was someone along those lines. Anybody know?