How many lines do you know?

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Avatar of 1e4c6_O-1

look at my prep.

amazing right?

 

Avatar of keep1teasy
Bittrsweet wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

I peaked as a USCF A player.  My opening prep consists of...well...pretty much nothing.

 

I am technically a USCF B player all I do is prep openings (it does help get me good positions). 

Do you mean you don't practice tactics at all?

I do practice tactics. I'm less of a tactical player, though.

Avatar of 2Ke21-0
MISTER_McCHESS wrote:

look at my prep.

amazing right?

 

Mine is better:

 

Avatar of 1e4c6_O-1

ok but actually here is some of my prep in Caro as black

im too tired to put more of it right now.

Avatar of Bittrsweet

So what's the best way to learn the main ideas in a line? Review GM games, books, or just experience from your own games?

Avatar of keep1teasy
Bittrsweet wrote:

So what's the best way to learn the main ideas in a line? Review GM games, books, or just experience from your own games?

All three.

Avatar of IMKeto
Knife_Fork wrote:
Bittrsweet ha scritto:

So what's the best way to learn the main ideas in a line? Review GM games, books, or just experience from your own games?

Take lessons from a FM or IM. A cheaper alternative is to just buy a premium membership to Chessable.com and then purchase a course on an opening of interest. Some of the courses can cost $150 or more if you buy the video package, which includes multiple hours of narrated and detailed instruction from GMs. That may seem pricey, but believe me, if you take the courses seriously, you can study them for several months and start to see great improvements in your game. Also, private lessons are a lot more expensive over time, but there is not substitute for a great teacher.

How often are you facing IM/GM talent that you need to spend that kind of time and money on openings?

Avatar of 1e4c6_O-1

yeah, i agree with @knife_fork

but I am a hypocrite because I spent about 4 hours studying not very common lines in the caro-kann advance variation :/

Avatar of blueemu

I've never really believed in this "one opening in depth" stuff. That limits the variety of middle-game positions to which you are exposed, which in turn limits the variety of plans that you learn and experience from both sides of the board. In the short term, that might gain you a few points... but in the long term it can only stunt your growth as a chess player.

Avatar of TheNameofNames
ThrillerFan wrote:
Bittrsweet wrote:

So it seems like lots of you don't have a good idea of how many lines you know. How do you practice your openings? Do you not need to practice them?

 

There is no reason to keep track of how many lines we know.  Again, it is all about understanding, not memorization, or line count.

 

Memorization of lines do not do you jack the moment a player deviates.  You need to UNDERSTAND THE POSITION AS A WHOLE!

 

After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6, you need to understand that Black is looking to put immediate pressure on White's d4-pawn and center in general.  You calculate that White has no time to castle by seeing that 6.Be2 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nh6 8.O-O Nf5 and there is no good way to avoid dropping material.

Now, why Nh6 and not Nge7?  (Has to do with Na3 possibilities)

Why is 4...cxd4 or 5...cxd4 too early and omitting 6...cxd4 a mistake?

What if White plays 6.Bd3 or 6.a3 instead?

Now, the real reason why knowing "lines" is crap.  What is wrong with 6.b3?  Why, in words, not moves, is that move REALLY REALLY BAD?

What is the point behind a3?

 

If you cannot answer these questions, I do not care how many "lines" you think you know.  You do not know jack bleep about the Advance French.

 

For example, what if I told you that 6.a3 was to be able to defend d4?  Would you think I was crazy?  Guess what?  That is the point behind 6.a3!

If 6...c4, stopping b4, all pressure is now off of d4 and the focus is on White's Kingside Attack, Black's Queenside Attack, and potential piece sacrifices on c4 and d5.

If another move is played, like 6...Nh6, the White gets in 7.b4!, and after 7...cxd4 8.cxd4 Nf5, the b2-square is available to the White Bishop to cover both critical central squares, d4 and e5.

If Black tries to stop b4 and keep pressure on d4 with 6...a5?, he has seriously weakened b5, and now the Milner-Barry Gambit works with 7.Bd3!  The difference between the Black pawn being on a6 vs a5 is the difference between almost lost and a huge advantage for White!

 

This is what is important.  Now how many stupid lines it is.  You need to understand the big picture.  White wants to get his King and d4-pawn to safety.  To save the d4-pawn requires immediate action.  Castling must wait or else the center falls apart.  If Black spends a single move that has no influence on d4 early on, White castles to safety with no disruption to his center!

Im basically just starting and i question that you needed to use this many words, i also question the validity of the numbers as well. How is white going to castle if it hasnt moved its bishop. Theres a video by rosen posted on youtube about the milner barry gambit, all I know is you gain a tempo with a threat on the queen I didnt understand anything you posted lol If my grammar gets really fucking bad perhaps i can become a 2000 player

Avatar of ponz111

HERE IS MY BEST LINE  IF I HAD 4 QUARTERS TO GIVE  TO THE 4 PRETTIEST GIRLS IN THE WORLD

YOU WOULD HJAVE A DOLLAR.][  PS SORRY FOR CAPS I HAVE MEDICAL CONDITION.]

Avatar of andrewv128

Not enough, I will tell you that.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
blueemu wrote:

I've never really believed in this "one opening in depth" stuff. That limits the variety of middle-game positions to which you are exposed, which in turn limits the variety of plans that you learn and experience from both sides of the board. In the short term, that might gain you a few points... but in the long term it can only stunt your growth as a chess player.

 

Actually, that depends on the opening.

London System?  Yeah, what you say would be true.

 

French Defense?  You can EASILY get away with this as your only Defense to 1.e4.  But notice I said "French Defense", not French Defense, Winawer Warsaw Variation (7.Qg4 O-O).

 

When I say I play the French exclusively, I play the Winawer with 7...Qc7, Winawer with 7...O-O, Winawer with 7...Kf8, Classical, McCutchen w/ 8...g6, McCutchen w/ 8...Kf8, Rubinstein, Open Tarrasch w/ 5...Nf6, Open Tarrasch with 5...Nc6, etc.

 

Where people get into trouble is following the same narrow path every time.

Avatar of Strangemover
ThrillerFan wrote:
blueemu wrote:

 

Where people get into trouble is following the same narrow path every time.

Such as pontificating about the French defence ad nauseam. 

Avatar of stephenthomasconrad

I know more lines than Hunter Biden!

Avatar of ThrillerFan
Bittrsweet wrote:

So what's the best way to learn the main ideas in a line? Review GM games, books, or just experience from your own games?

 

Here is what I have found to work best:

 

Get your feet wet with a video, say from Chessbase or iChess.  The real stuff by an IM or GM that tend to be 4 to 8 hours long and usually about $30.  Not the stupid 15 minute U-Tube videos created by some noob.

 

Invest in a book or two, not necessarily reading it in order, but rather, how the video is arranged.  Keep in mind the video will be a repertoire, and the book may be too.  Make sure the 2 have some overlap before you purchase both items.

 

Next, find additional annotated games, like Megabase 2021 or the applicable section of chesspublishing.com or even the videos often have a supplemental collection of games to go with it.

 

Lastly, expand on the opening you are studying.  Learn to understand the lines not covered in the original repertoire.  So if you are studying the French Defense, and the repertoire recommends 3...Nf6 against 3.Nc3, learn the Winawer!

 

Another important item.  Do not cherry pick Black wins and do not try to use statistics to validate or invalidate the use of a line.  Just because White scored 72 percent amongst annotated games with say, the McCutchen, does not make the McCutchen bad.  Many times the mistake made is so deep into the game that it has nothing to do with the Opening.

 

In my case, I am set basically for life with Black against 1.e4.  The rest still needs work.  Right now I am going through a video that was published just under a year ago on the Benko Gambit.  It also comes with about 350 games that I will be analyzing, and just for a supplement of games, when I am away from the computer and at a board, I am going thru the old book by Jacobs and Kinsman from the late 90s, starting in the back with the declined lines, especially 4.Nf3 and 4.Qc2.

 

Hope this helps.

Avatar of 1e4c6_O-1
ponz111 wrote:

HERE IS MY BEST LINE  IF I HAD 4 QUARTERS TO GIVE  TO THE 4 PRETTIEST GIRLS IN THE WORLD

YOU WOULD HJAVE A DOLLAR.][  PS SORRY FOR CAPS I HAVE MEDICAL CONDITION.]

What medical condition makes you need to type in allcaps?

Avatar of James-Nguyen
ThrillerFan wrote:
blueemu wrote:

Nearly 50 years ago, there was a player in Canadian OTB tournaments who ALWAYS blitzed out his moves as if he was playing bullet. Naturally, he had a lot of lines memorized many moves deep.

Back then, there was no digital clock, we used ordinary mechanical clocks to regulate the time control, and the Tournament Director would set the clocks at one minute before the hour at the start of the game... so that nobody could complain that they hadn't been given the full two hours thinking time.

This "speed freak" player once beat an IM in a tournament game before the flag had fallen to signal the START of his allocated two hours of playing time.

 

That strategy does not always work.

Case in Point.  I played in the Atlanta Class Championship in October 2019.  I was on board 2 in the final round.  If I win on my board and Black wins on board 1, I get clear first (the small size lead to weird scenarios because of who had already played each other by round 5).

 

I had won my first 2 games, both on the White side of the Sicilian Prins Variation.  I lost a Kings Indian Defense round 3 that I was totally winning but got in severe time trouble, and beat the London System round 4.  So I had White in the final round and the guy I played spent no more than about 5 minutes on his clock in any game.  I knew he moved fast.

 

A book had just come out that July on the Elshad for White.  Knowing that he moves way too fast, I decided to throw it against him.  The time control was 40/90, SD/30, d/10, and he was moving rapidly until he was dead lost in the endgame and only then he spent 6 minutes on a move.

 

Here is a link to that game, annotated.

http://charlottechesscenter.blogspot.com/2019/12/game-analysis-atlanta-class_17.html?m=0

 

ooh, I was going to play in that tournament, but I didn't

Avatar of Bittrsweet

Sometimes Super GMs (like Hikaru) will intentionally play 'bad' openings and even odds games that have never been seen before and wins them with ease. I don't think he has incredible 'positional understanding' of these new positions, he just has a great understanding of how the pieces move. Is that all the opening really is? How the pieces move?

Avatar of brooklynelliott

why are we doing