how to destroy scotch opening

I always get terrible positions as black out of the opening against the scotch and it's really annoying. There's also a million dumb gambits that I don't know how to refute.

Anyone care to educate me on how to beat these things?

Same even I struggle with the scotch. Thats why I am thinking to play the petrovs defense, I just thought about it today but one more option is to play nxd4 instead of exd4 even though white's queen is active after d6 its decent for black.I tried it in few games and it was not bad.

Your welcome

A solid response is 3...exd4, exchanging pawns to contest White's central dominance. After 4.Nxd4, Black should develop actively with 4...Nf6, attacking the e4 pawn and preparing to castle. Alternatively, the more aggressive 4...Bc5 targets both the knight on d4 and the f2 square, potentially leading to quick counterplay.

@3
3...Nxd4 is a poor idea: you leave white with a dominiant centralised queen on d4.
@1
You cannot 'destroy' the Scotch opening, but there are 3 good responses to the Scotch.
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 exd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6,
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 exd4 4 Nxd4 Bc5,
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 exd4 4 Nxd4 Qh4, stems from Steinitz and wins a pawn by force, but gives white a strong attack.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067287 
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018636

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1066645

Well it does give a centralised queen for white but after d6 nf6 be7 0-0 black is Ok and I Dont think @pickle7777777 is not talking about scotch classical variation. @pickle7777777 is talking about scotch gambit

you should play Nf6 the Schmidt variation and learn the lines for Nxc6 cause everything else is bad and gives black a good position. Nxc6 is drawish but also gives a chance for black

@7

"after d6 nf6 be7 0-0 black is Ok"
++ It is terrible for black. Here is a correspondence game.

"scotch gambit"
++ There is no need to fear the gambits. 4 Bc4 or 4 c3 are fine for black.
Here are 3 correspondence games:

In the first example game (Grbac - Kurylo) did they agree to a draw or did somebody win? Bizarre to end the game in the middle of nowhere.

@10

1-0 Black resigned. He has no defense against the threats of Rf6 or Rh5.

If you're going to play 3...Nxd4, I think you're going to want to play 5...Ne7. The knight is headed to c6 to harass White's queen.

@12

5...Ne7 is good for white too. Example:

Any high level games with 5...Qf6? Seems that may be the latest try after 3...Nxd4.

3...exd4 4.Nxd4 Qf6 is a not-so-common, yet highly respectable variation.

It may eventually transpose to Bc5 stuff after 5.Nxc6 Bc5 or 5.Be3 Bc5, but it does avoid the 4...Bc5 5.Nb3 lines.

Yeah 3... Nxd4 followed by d6 is definitely passive. What if black does this and is in a slightly worse endgame?

3...exd4 4. Nxd4 Qf6 also looks interesting and sound.

I'm honestly not looking for a way to destroy the scotch, but a way to get a decent game with a clear gameplan out of the opening. All the analysis definitely helps me understand the opening more.

ya this is a good choice

This thread prompted me to get Scotch the Scotch Lolli Variation by Marek Soszynski. I had a $3 promotional credit at Amazon, so it only cost me 30 cents. In the line of your diagram, that book (more of a pamphlet really) recommends 8...f6 instead of c6. Then after 9.Nb5 or 9.d5, 9...Kd8. 

The book also covers the Cochrane Variation which is 3...Nxd4 4.Nxe5 and Napoleon's Gambit which is 3...Nxd4 4.Nxd4 exd4 5.Bc4.

you just joined a hour ago and you din't even play any games and you are saying that you struggle with scotch.

khalisthingsc wrote: gmsuhit wrote:

Same even I struggle with the scotch. Thats why I am thinking to play the petrovs defense, I just thought about it today but one more option is to play nxd4 instead of exd4 even though white's queen is active after d6 its decent for black.I tried it in few games and it was not bad.

A solid response is 3...exd4, exchanging pawns to contest White's central dominance. After 4.Nxd4, Black should develop actively with 4...Nf6, attacking the e4 pawn and preparing to castle. Alternatively, the more aggressive 4...Bc5 targets both the knight on d4 and the f2 square, potentially leading to quick counterplay.

When facing 3. d4, I usually go for the solid 3...exd4 to challenge White's central dominance early. After 4. Nxd4, my go-to move is 4...Nf6, which not only puts pressure on the e4 pawn but also sets up for quick kingside development and castling crunchyroll. Sometimes, I like to mix it up with 4...Bc5, aiming for aggressive counterplay by targeting the knight on d4 and the f2 square, keeping White on their toes.