How to play against the french defence?

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Avatar of Thunderstruck68

Hi. I play a lot of OTB chess, and I have always had some difficulties playing against the french defence. Playing 3.Nd2 or 3.Nc3 involves a lot of theory, and get into structures I dont really like or understand well enough.

I have tried the winggambit (1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.e5 c5 4.b4...), but i need an alternative. Relatively simple to play, not to much theory, and still with some "sting" in it. I know thats a lot to ask for happy.png

I have 1740 in OTB rating. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Avatar of urk
The King's Indian Attack has quite a bit of sting versus the French.

The Tarrasch is simple and good and gets away from what a French player wants, I think.
Avatar of ZedsDead87

I'm no expert but a while ago I decided to learn the French and only the French for now and while I'm progressing the nc3 e5 f4 always gets me as I feel really cramped. Try searching the Steiniz. "Spelling". 

Avatar of kingsrook11
ZedsDead87 wrote:

I'm no expert but a while ago I decided to learn the French and only the French for now and while I'm progressing the nc3 e5 f4 always gets me as I feel really cramped. Try searching the Steiniz. "Spelling". 

 

Try the Winawer then

Avatar of Thunderstruck68

Thank you for your suggestion so far. But the idea is to avoid the mainlines, such as the tarrasch and winawer, but still get a playable position, by using some kind of sideline, perhaps as early as the 2 or 3 move. It doesnt matter that the line isnt considered 100% correct at highest level, since neither I, or my opponents play at that level happy.png
Maybe som of your guys have experience with a certain sideline?
@urk The kings indian attack could be an option.

Avatar of kindaspongey

Possibly helpful:
A Simple Chess Opening Repertoire for White by Sam Collins

http://www.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/A-Simple-Chess-Opening-Repertoire-for-White-76p3916.htm
http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/A_Simple_Chess_Opening_Repertoire_for_White.pdf
My First Chess Opening Repertoire for White by Vincent Moret
https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/9033.pdf

Avatar of nescitus

I sometimes play the Tchigorin: 1.e4 e6 2. Qe2!? with the idea of getting improved version of closed Sicilian: 2...c5 3.f4 Nc6 4.Nf3 followed by g3, Bg2, castling, d3 in some order. Black 2...Be7 is also worth considering. But I must admit I'm a little afraid of playing against 2...e5!? I'd pick some combination of kingside fianchetto and c3, but some people play 3.f4!? exf4 4.d4 Qh4+ 5.Kd1 and enjoy it

Avatar of ZedsDead87

OP! I realized after I posted the steinitz recommendation that nc3 has a lot of study. I think your best bet is called the Monte Carlo variation. Basically an exchange French but you play c4. It's a rare line but sound. You'll end up with an IQP but it's healthy to learn them. Most French players like slower development then attack. This c4 will lead to wide open positions, teach you IQP, take most French players out of book very quickly and let you just play chess. And surprisingly just as many people do not know how to play against an IQP as with it. I think you'll find many players trying to hard to capture it. No main lines to study just study IQP and you'll be fine. 

Avatar of ZedsDead87

Repac I looked into the winawer but I'm not sure if I like the positions a couple times I have tried it. Maybe I'll look into it again. Thanks. 

Avatar of blueemu

King's Indian Attack.

Avatar of Thunderstruck68

@ZedsDead87 : Thanks for your suggestion, but i think 2.c4 and the exchange french is too straight forward, not really giving black any headache. But thats just my opinion.

@nescitus : The Tchigorin is very interestning. I like the surprise value, and that black gets a different game, than he aimed for. I think few would follow up with 2...e5!?, it seems kind of strange to move that pawn again, though i understand the idea. Surely worth a try happy.png

Avatar of SmithyQ

Do not underestimate the exchange French with c4.  I used it for years as my main weapon against it.  It has several points for it: much less theory, no typical blocked structure and, perhaps most important, French defence players HATE the exchange.  Absolutely hate it.  It puts many of them on tilt, and if they aren't accurate, they can quickly face a crushing attack.

Here are a few of my quick miniatures.

This last game was the first time I beat an 1800-rated player, which has forever endeared this opening in my heart.
Finally, if this hasn't convinced you to try this variation out, two other suggestions.  2.b3!? is very interesting. which again leads to very different structures than the typical French.  There's a youtube video that even has the idea of castling Queenside as soon as possible and then racing with pawns on the Kingside.  I'm not sure if that idea is sound, but definitely worth a try in blitz at least.
Lastly, apparently 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5!? 3.f4! is the best way to punish Black's move order.  The Queen may prove useful in a King's Gambit structure, as now the main break d5 is heavily discouraged.
Avatar of Thunderstruck68

@SmithyQ : The last game is very nice happy.png Well played. But let me explain: I actually played the french exchange several times with black, but through a different moveorder. It starts with albin countergambit: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.e3 exd4 4.exd4...and we have a french exchange with c4. And I always liked this black position, so....

2.b3 is also in interresting option. I will check out the video. Thank you happy.png

Avatar of ModestAndPolite

1. e4 e6

2. Qe2

2. b6

2. Nf3

2. d4 d5 3. Be3

 

All sidelines. All playable. But main lines are (usually) main lines for good reasons.

Avatar of RuneTonseth

 French Wing Gambit forever... Guess that why Im at 1400 rating... lol

 

Avatar of BronsteinPawn

The King's Indian is too mainstrea.

Play the Reti gambit, and analyze all games from with it from Karasev, a russian IM.

Avatar of schachfan1

I started working on the Siciian Wing Gambit in 2009, and therefore, of course, 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.e5 c5 4.b4 (I came to this idea as for plaing aganst the French defense not so long ago, thoughSmile) is one of the main options for me. The thing is that I am very fond of French defense as Black, and for about 15 years it was my main weapon as Black against 1.e4 (now I switched at last to 1. ... c5 Sicilian and from time to time the old good 1. ... e5 and the Caro-Kann 1. ... c6). As for White, of course one of the most principle ways is the Classical 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 (tastes differ, and of course 3.Nd2 Tarrash, 3.e5, or 3.ed - that all is quite well playable, along with M. Chigorin's 2.Qe2, or 2.d3 the favouritve of L. Ljuboevich) - and as for 3.Nc3 Bb4 (my favourite as Black) - the straighforward 4.e5 (which requires a real heap of theoretical knowledge to be able to put up problems for Black). Along with (3.Nc3 Bb4) 4.e5, there is another way, much to my taste - 4.a3!?, fun to play, and besides, not so well studied as 4.e5. Another thing is what to do after 3.Nc3 Nf6 Smile - both 4.Bg5 and 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 look good. As Black, I from time to time practice (3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5) 4. ... Ne4!?, and another idea which I apply from time to time against French defense - 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 - 5.Qg4!? - rather poisonous. And the last question for those who want to play well against Fench defense and look for the ways to create problems for Black - what to do against the somewhat passive but fireproof Rubinstein variation 3.Nd2 (3.Nc3) - 3. ... de Smile That all said, I do not think that 3.e5, or 3.ed (or 2.d3, or 2.Qe2) - give real chances for White to get some advantage in the French defense.

Avatar of ZedsDead87

As Black, I from time to time practice (3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5) 4. ... Ne4!?, and

 

Ive tried this before but couldn't find any resources. How would one get some ideas in this line for black. 

Avatar of Ziryab

If you want to beat the French, your best bet is to play either the Advance or the standard Nc3 lines. Black has accepted a bad bishop and a relatively cramped position. Outplay him.

 

If you adopt some "anti-French" system, you will beat a few unprepared patzers, but will continue to face difficulties against prepared players. The lines that one must know against the French are fewer and less complicated than those one must know to battle the Sicilian. If you don't have time to prepare these, you oughta try something other than 1.e4.

Avatar of Optimissed

Not the Advance. Too easy for black, at least to draw. Maybe Nc3 or Nd2. I played 2 Qe2 for a year. It's better than its reputation.