http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=70682403
A win for Black in honor of 2...h6, just played after my last post.
How to smash the dutch
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Nov 24, 2010
0
#23
BirdBrain wrote:
I appreciate the feedback in this forum. To debate that the Dutch is inferior, that, my friend, is like saying vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate. Inferior in that the drawing chances go down? Probably so...inferior in aggressiveness? Probably not.
It is the responsibility of a chess player, when they decide on an opening, to study what THEIR OPPONENT can do to them - not always what they can do to their opponent. There are some nice "automatic" Dutch developments, considering that White plays "autopilot" as well with d4-c4-Nf3-g3-etc. But there are more forcing replies. I agree with the post on the Staunton - that gives me more headaches than any other opening White uses against the Dutch. Not that Black doesn't have winning chances too, but the lines are definitely more tricky for him.
"How to smash the dutch" and proceed with one game? Please...try that opening about 100 times, and you will find that there are Black players out there who are prepared for you! How about, "A nice trick in Blitz against the Dutch" - that might be a better title. Your title is not befitting. 2...g6 fits into White's plans? Good! I am sincerly glad for you. I normally play 2...Nf6 and allow the trade, if you like, followed by ...e6, and maybe ...h6 if I like. To say 2...h6 is Black's best is DEFINITELY an opinion - I play it sometimes, but not always. I think 2. Bg5 is a nice way for White to play, but what about Steinitz's 2...c6? I am sorry, but ultimately, you failed to convince me - I will still push 1...f5, even if I lose. The Dutch will live on :-)
i was rather exxagerating when i said "smash" but so far in tournament play, i have NEVER lost against the dutch. 15 or so wins, a couple draws. the draws came from the Bg5 h6 line in Bold. most of my wins were with the staunton. and this is a serious try in the staunton for me, i would never do f3, then Bd3 lol
FullmetalAlchemist wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
I appreciate the feedback in this forum. To debate that the Dutch is inferior, that, my friend, is like saying vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate. Inferior in that the drawing chances go down? Probably so...inferior in aggressiveness? Probably not.
It is the responsibility of a chess player, when they decide on an opening, to study what THEIR OPPONENT can do to them - not always what they can do to their opponent. There are some nice "automatic" Dutch developments, considering that White plays "autopilot" as well with d4-c4-Nf3-g3-etc. But there are more forcing replies. I agree with the post on the Staunton - that gives me more headaches than any other opening White uses against the Dutch. Not that Black doesn't have winning chances too, but the lines are definitely more tricky for him.
"How to smash the dutch" and proceed with one game? Please...try that opening about 100 times, and you will find that there are Black players out there who are prepared for you! How about, "A nice trick in Blitz against the Dutch" - that might be a better title. Your title is not befitting. 2...g6 fits into White's plans? Good! I am sincerly glad for you. I normally play 2...Nf6 and allow the trade, if you like, followed by ...e6, and maybe ...h6 if I like. To say 2...h6 is Black's best is DEFINITELY an opinion - I play it sometimes, but not always. I think 2. Bg5 is a nice way for White to play, but what about Steinitz's 2...c6? I am sorry, but ultimately, you failed to convince me - I will still push 1...f5, even if I lose. The Dutch will live on :-)
i was rather exxagerating when i said "smash" but so far in tournament play, i have NEVER lost against the dutch. 15 or so wins, a couple draws. the draws came from the Bg5 h6 line in Bold. most of my wins were with the staunton. and this is a serious try in the staunton for me, i would never do f3, then Bd3 lol
You have obviously not played a very strong opponent who plays the Dutch and plays it well. FM John Curdo plays the Dutch as his regular opening against 1. d4 and he has been killing people with it for years.
Nov 24, 2010
0
#26
RobKing wrote:
FullmetalAlchemist wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
I appreciate the feedback in this forum. To debate that the Dutch is inferior, that, my friend, is like saying vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate. Inferior in that the drawing chances go down? Probably so...inferior in aggressiveness? Probably not.
It is the responsibility of a chess player, when they decide on an opening, to study what THEIR OPPONENT can do to them - not always what they can do to their opponent. There are some nice "automatic" Dutch developments, considering that White plays "autopilot" as well with d4-c4-Nf3-g3-etc. But there are more forcing replies. I agree with the post on the Staunton - that gives me more headaches than any other opening White uses against the Dutch. Not that Black doesn't have winning chances too, but the lines are definitely more tricky for him.
"How to smash the dutch" and proceed with one game? Please...try that opening about 100 times, and you will find that there are Black players out there who are prepared for you! How about, "A nice trick in Blitz against the Dutch" - that might be a better title. Your title is not befitting. 2...g6 fits into White's plans? Good! I am sincerly glad for you. I normally play 2...Nf6 and allow the trade, if you like, followed by ...e6, and maybe ...h6 if I like. To say 2...h6 is Black's best is DEFINITELY an opinion - I play it sometimes, but not always. I think 2. Bg5 is a nice way for White to play, but what about Steinitz's 2...c6? I am sorry, but ultimately, you failed to convince me - I will still push 1...f5, even if I lose. The Dutch will live on :-)
i was rather exxagerating when i said "smash" but so far in tournament play, i have NEVER lost against the dutch. 15 or so wins, a couple draws. the draws came from the Bg5 h6 line in Bold. most of my wins were with the staunton. and this is a serious try in the staunton for me, i would never do f3, then Bd3 lol
You have obviously not played a very strong opponent who plays the Dutch and plays it well. FM John Curdo plays the Dutch as his regular opening against 1. d4 and he has been killing people with it for years.
well, the best dutch player i have faced was around 1900...that was the draw.
Nov 24, 2010
0
#27
BirdBrain wrote:
http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=70682403
A win for Black in honor of 2...h6, just played after my last post.
not something to be proud of, your opponet was weak
FullmetalAlchemist wrote:
RobKing wrote:
FullmetalAlchemist wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
I appreciate the feedback in this forum. To debate that the Dutch is inferior, that, my friend, is like saying vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate. Inferior in that the drawing chances go down? Probably so...inferior in aggressiveness? Probably not.
It is the responsibility of a chess player, when they decide on an opening, to study what THEIR OPPONENT can do to them - not always what they can do to their opponent. There are some nice "automatic" Dutch developments, considering that White plays "autopilot" as well with d4-c4-Nf3-g3-etc. But there are more forcing replies. I agree with the post on the Staunton - that gives me more headaches than any other opening White uses against the Dutch. Not that Black doesn't have winning chances too, but the lines are definitely more tricky for him.
"How to smash the dutch" and proceed with one game? Please...try that opening about 100 times, and you will find that there are Black players out there who are prepared for you! How about, "A nice trick in Blitz against the Dutch" - that might be a better title. Your title is not befitting. 2...g6 fits into White's plans? Good! I am sincerly glad for you. I normally play 2...Nf6 and allow the trade, if you like, followed by ...e6, and maybe ...h6 if I like. To say 2...h6 is Black's best is DEFINITELY an opinion - I play it sometimes, but not always. I think 2. Bg5 is a nice way for White to play, but what about Steinitz's 2...c6? I am sorry, but ultimately, you failed to convince me - I will still push 1...f5, even if I lose. The Dutch will live on :-)
i was rather exxagerating when i said "smash" but so far in tournament play, i have NEVER lost against the dutch. 15 or so wins, a couple draws. the draws came from the Bg5 h6 line in Bold. most of my wins were with the staunton. and this is a serious try in the staunton for me, i would never do f3, then Bd3 lol
You have obviously not played a very strong opponent who plays the Dutch and plays it well. FM John Curdo plays the Dutch as his regular opening against 1. d4 and he has been killing people with it for years.
well, the best dutch player i have faced was around 1900...that was the draw.
Thats hardly strong enough to claim the dutch is trash,especially if you only drew. flip through my game against a 1900 that i posted above. Youcan see that 1900s dont really handle the dutch very well in a lot of cases. That was one. Play a master and talk. Plus a lot of dutch lines transpose to nimzo lines and that is hardly trash.
Nov 24, 2010
0
#29
FullmetalAlchemist wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=70682403
A win for Black in honor of 2...h6, just played after my last post.
not something to be proud of, your opponet was weak
My opponent may have been "weak", but I do believe that Simon Williams employs the idea with ...Rh7 and ...Rf7. He could mop the floor with either of us. Until you beat him about 15 times in a row, then this claim doesn't do it for me. I think White would get a good initiative, and Black must prove that it is nothing more than that - well, welcome to chess.
Hm... the next time I win a game against some amateur who played the Sicilian, should I post a thread "How to smash the Sicilian" ?
Nov 24, 2010
0
#31
BirdBrain wrote:
FullmetalAlchemist wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=70682403
A win for Black in honor of 2...h6, just played after my last post.
not something to be proud of, your opponet was weak
My opponent may have been "weak", but I do believe that Simon Williams employs the idea with ...Rh7 and ...Rf7. He could mop the floor with either of us. Until you beat him about 15 times in a row, then this claim doesn't do it for me. I think White would get a good initiative, and Black must prove that it is nothing more than that - well, welcome to chess.
im not talking about the Rh7 Rf7 idea, thats theory. and that was EXACTLY what i said. kingside initiative. did i say white wins? no did i say white gets kiingside initiative? yes. did i say white wins? no. no.
Nov 24, 2010
0
#32
Atos wrote:
Hm... the next time I win a game against some amateur who played the Sicilian, should I post a thread "How to smash the Sicilian" ?
YES!!!! lol
Nov 24, 2010
0
#33
notice people: i said SMASH not beat. if i wanted to say beat, i would have said destroy, beat, annaiahlate, send to hell, crush, etc. but smash means to mash and bash and get rash. doesnt come close to saying "beat"
Nov 24, 2010
0
#34
I should post a forum called "how to smash White's attempt to smash the Dutch with the Rh7-Rf7 idea"! Just kidding. Listen, no hard feelings. I know there are a lot of anti-dutch systems, and some people just love to hate the Dutch. Maybe that is why I play it. But I admire your idea, because it helped me to get a better understanding of my idea. That is the fun behind chess. So thanks for the great ideas - keep 'em rolling, and I will continue to find ways to counter them.
Nov 25, 2010
0
#35
BirdBrain wrote:
I should post a forum called "how to smash White's attempt to smash the Dutch with the Rh7-Rf7 idea"! Just kidding. Listen, no hard feelings. I know there are a lot of anti-dutch systems, and some people just love to hate the Dutch. Maybe that is why I play it. But I admire your idea, because it helped me to get a better understanding of my idea. That is the fun behind chess. So thanks for the great ideas - keep 'em rolling, and I will continue to find ways to counter them.
i dont hate the dutch at all, of all defenses against d4, i think this is the hardest one to crack. thats why, kinda fun to beat em and find ways that people might stumble as black if they mess up in the opening. And i found a loss against the dutch yesterday: opponet squeezed me:
Nov 25, 2010
0
#36
The system, to me, that is the most annoying, being I am a Dutch player more than anything against 1. d4, is the Staunton gambit. That is what I like to play against the Dutch - anything that takes away from the kingside initiative that Black gets. The other way I like to play, which you can use against the Leningrad, goes as such (not saying it is a win-all, but it is fun and aggressive) -
I appreciate the feedback in this forum. To debate that the Dutch is inferior, that, my friend, is like saying vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate. Inferior in that the drawing chances go down? Probably so...inferior in aggressiveness? Probably not.
It is the responsibility of a chess player, when they decide on an opening, to study what THEIR OPPONENT can do to them - not always what they can do to their opponent. There are some nice "automatic" Dutch developments, considering that White plays "autopilot" as well with d4-c4-Nf3-g3-etc. But there are more forcing replies. I agree with the post on the Staunton - that gives me more headaches than any other opening White uses against the Dutch. Not that Black doesn't have winning chances too, but the lines are definitely more tricky for him.
"How to smash the dutch" and proceed with one game? Please...try that opening about 100 times, and you will find that there are Black players out there who are prepared for you! How about, "A nice trick in Blitz against the Dutch" - that might be a better title. Your title is not befitting. 2...g6 fits into White's plans? Good! I am sincerly glad for you. I normally play 2...Nf6 and allow the trade, if you like, followed by ...e6, and maybe ...h6 if I like. To say 2...h6 is Black's best is DEFINITELY an opinion - I play it sometimes, but not always. I think 2. Bg5 is a nice way for White to play, but what about Steinitz's 2...c6? I am sorry, but ultimately, you failed to convince me - I will still push 1...f5, even if I lose. The Dutch will live on :-)