I ranked all 20 first moves for white.

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Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
Chuck639 wrote:

Is a Open Catalan not an open position?

Thats false advertising! I want my money back from the gas station attendant guy…

And who's decision is it to open the Catalan? It's black's decision.

This is black opening the position.

This is black closing the position.

Avatar of Chuck639
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

Is a Open Catalan not an open position?

Thats false advertising! I want my money back from the gas station attendant guy…

And who's decision is it to open the Catalan? It's black's decision.

This is black opening the position.

This is black closing the position.

It’s not the end of the world.

If I understand the plans, ideas, strategies and have the initiative to play for, I am more than satisfied for a chess game.

Do I miss e4, not at all.

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
Chuck639 wrote:

It’s not the end of the world.

If I understand the plans, ideas, strategies and have the initiative to play for, I am more than satisfied for a chess game.

Do I miss e4, not at all.

Right, and the same applies to e4 players who understand those positions well. It doesn't mean your opening choice is better than others.

Avatar of Chuck639
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

It’s not the end of the world.

If I understand the plans, ideas, strategies and have the initiative to play for, I am more than satisfied for a chess game.

Do I miss e4, not at all.

Right, and the same applies to e4 players who understand those positions well. It doesn't mean your opening choice is better than others.

OP is saying d4 is best, and I don’t actually disagree.

I don’t fully agree e4 is best with respects to our conversation. I do know that e4 did not work out for me because of too much theory and cheap tricks, which is why I unstuck myself from 1200.

 

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
Chuck639 wrote:

OP is saying d4 is best, and I don’t actually disagree.

I don’t fully agree e4 is best with respects to our conversation. I do know that e4 did not work out for me because of too much theory and cheap tricks, which is why I unstuck myself from 1200.

Just because you couldn't play an opening as well other people can doesn't make it worse. I don't know what you're referring to about too much theory and cheap tricks but in my experience if you just play good chess you don't have to worry about long lines of theory. If you play good chess then you won't fall for cheap tricks.

It's like what I said before. From what you've said, it seems like you have fallen for cheap tricks and then you say it's because there's too much theory. The reality is it isn't because there's too many cheap tricks or too much theory, it was purely about tactical skill.

The opening is only as good as the player who plays it.

Avatar of Chuck639
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

OP is saying d4 is best, and I don’t actually disagree.

I don’t fully agree e4 is best with respects to our conversation. I do know that e4 did not work out for me because of too much theory and cheap tricks, which is why I unstuck myself from 1200.

Just because you couldn't play an opening as well other people can doesn't make it worse. I don't know what you're referring to about too much theory and cheap tricks but in my experience if you just play good chess you don't have to worry about long lines of theory. If you play good chess then you won't fall for cheap tricks.

It's like what I said before. From what you've said, it seems like you have fallen for cheap tricks and then you say it's because there's too much theory. The reality is it isn't because there's too many cheap tricks or too much theory, it was purely about tactical skill.

The opening is only as good as the player who plays it.

Sounds you like have it figured out.

I don’t see myself going back to e4 after having success at the 1500-2000 bracket.

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
Chuck639 wrote:

Sounds you like have it figured out.

I don’t see myself going back to e4 after having success at the 1500-2000 bracket.

Sure, play the opening you want to play. I'm happy playing against d4 as well and I think there are a lot of fun d4 lines.

It's just the fact that e4 isn't inferior just because you didn't do very well with it. That's totally personal.

For me, e4 is the most fun and I enjoy playing the white side of the Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Caro Kann, French, etc. It's also practically the best and I gave objective reasons for that being the case, not subjective ones.

Maybe you can make a strong case for d4 being about equal to e4 but not for c4 and Nf3.

Avatar of Chuck639
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

Sounds you like have it figured out.

I don’t see myself going back to e4 after having success at the 1500-2000 bracket.

Sure, play the opening you want to play. I'm happy playing against d4 as well and I think there are a lot of fun d4 lines.

It's just the fact that e4 isn't inferior just because you didn't do very well with it. That's totally personal.

For me, e4 is the most fun and I enjoy playing the white side of the Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Caro Kann, French, etc. It's also practically the best and I gave objective reasons for that being the case, not subjective ones.

Maybe you can make a strong case for d4 being about equal to e4 but not for c4 and Nf3.

I play c4 or Nf3 so… they can transpose to d4 or e4, huh interesting.

 

 

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
Chuck639 wrote:

I play c4 or Nf3 so… they can transpose to d4 or e4, huh interesting.

Starting with e4 or d4 provides you with the best flexibility to adapt to the opponent's moves.

Often you will delay Nf3 in many king's pawn openings as sometimes there are more useful moves but e4 will always be useful. The same can be said for some queen's pawn openings.

Avatar of varonemanuel

Your comments are being very useful to me

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

For example:

This was useful to delay the development of the knight as f4 could be played and also it disallows the pin with Bg4.

This is considered white's strongest reply to the Benoni. Nf3 would've blocked the f pawn and Bb5+ is strongest, not losing time on Nf3.

Avatar of sansuk

Why you put Van Geet's  Nc3 at nr 12 ?  It belongs by the best ones.

 

Avatar of magipi
sansuk wrote:

Why you put Van Geet's  Nc3 at nr 12 ?  It belongs by the best ones.

Reading the original post, did you get the impression that the guy knows what he's doing? I certainly didn't.

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
sansuk wrote:

Why you put Van Geet's  Nc3 at nr 12 ?  It belongs by the best ones.

Justice for Van Geet! We will not be silenced!

Avatar of Yerachmeal
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

Sure, play the opening you want to play. I'm happy playing against d4 as well and I think there are a lot of fun d4 lines.

It's just the fact that e4 isn't inferior just because you didn't do very well with it. That's totally personal.

For me, e4 is the most fun and I enjoy playing the white side of the Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Caro Kann, French, etc. It's also practically the best and I gave objective reasons for that being the case, not subjective ones.

Maybe you can make a strong case for d4 being about equal to e4 but not for c4 and Nf3.

What about Petrov's defense? Do you like the White side of that?

Oh, and there's a very simple yet strong case for d4, c4, and Nf3: They all objectively do better according to the chess.com explorer.

Avatar of Yerachmeal
sansuk wrote:

Why you put Van Geet's  Nc3 at nr 12 ?  It belongs by the best ones.

 

Because it attacks a protected space, and therefore doesn't do much. Also it just simply doesn't seem logical to do that on move 1, which is usually when you want to actively influence the center. It can be a good move to do early, but why would you want to start with it?

Avatar of Ethan_Brollier

Whatever you say OP. 
EX Tier:
1. c4 (The best first move, controlling the center with no risk to White)
2. Nf3 (Second best, the perfect waiting move)
3. d4 (Traditionally considered to be the best or second best move)
4. e4 (Best by test)
A Tier:
5. b3 (A great waiting move, but there are better options out there)
6. g3 (A good waiting move, but entirely redundant when Reti exists)
7. b4 (Like e4 and d4, slightly too committal to be the best, but great)
B Tier:
8. c3 (We begin to see the first truly odd openings here)
9. e3 (Just play Queen's Pawn like a normal person)
10. d3 (This move does essentially nothing at no cost, a perfect middleground)
11. a3 (The ultimate waiting move, unfortunately White is now playing Black)
12. Nc3 (White's options are limited, but the remaining options are still playable)
C Tier:
13. f4 (When the best move against a gambit is to transpose to the King's Gambit, you know something has gone horribly horribly wrong, somehow some variations are playable)
14. g4 (You live for the Fritz Gambit and have never won a Classical game in your life)
15. h3 (A waiting move that does exist)}
F Tier:
16. a4 (The better of the two rooks to develop, this is a terrible opening)
17. h4 (The worse of the two rooks to develop, this is a terrible opening)
18. Na3 (The better of the two knights to develop, this is a terrible opening)
19. Nh3 (The worse of the two knights to develop, this is a terrible opening)
20. f3 (The worst opening in chess, a waiting move that actively invites an attack on your king and will never support anything later on, often wastes a tempo for f2-f3 f3-f4 later in the game)

Avatar of Yerachmeal
magipi wrote:

Reading the original post, did you get the impression that the guy knows what he's doing? I certainly didn't.

Let me guess, it's because of the informal style it was written in, and/or grammar and spelling mistakes I probably made, right?

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95
Yerachmeal wrote:

What about Petrov's defense? Do you like the White side of that?

Oh, and there's a very simple yet strong case for d4, c4, and Nf3: They all objectively do better according to the chess.com explorer.

The Petrov's Defence is not bad for white. It's not the most interesting game but there are plenty of openings like that in d4.

The stats when you look at a move on the surface are not as relevant. If you look at a move on the surface and then look at certain openings within that move, the stats will change.

  • The Queen's Gambit has a significantly lower win rate against the Semi-Slav.
  • The London has a significantly lower win rate against main line setups. Black is actually winning more games here.
  • White has a higher win rate in the Najdorf than in the Semi-Slav or London.
  • White has a higher win rate in the French Winawer than in the QGD.
  • etc.

You only look and judge on the surface without investigating any of the variations at all.

Avatar of Yerachmeal
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

Whatever you say OP. 
EX Tier:
1. c4 (The best first move, controlling the center with no risk to White)
2. Nf3 (Second best, the perfect waiting move)
3. d4 (Traditionally considered to be the best or second best move)
4. e4 (Best by test)
A Tier:
5. b3 (A great waiting move, but there are better options out there)
6. g3 (A good waiting move, but entirely redundant when Reti exists)
7. b4 (Like e4 and d4, slightly too committal to be the best, but great)
B Tier:
8. c3 (We begin to see the first truly odd openings here)
9. e3 (Just play Queen's Pawn like a normal person)
10. d3 (This move does essentially nothing at no cost, a perfect middleground)
11. a3 (The ultimate waiting move, unfortunately White is now playing Black)
12. Nc3 (White's options are limited, but the remaining options are still playable)
C Tier:
13. f4 (When the best move against a gambit is to transpose to the King's Gambit, you know something has gone horribly horribly wrong, somehow some variations are playable)
14. g4 (You live for the Fritz Gambit and have never won a Classical game in your life)
15. h3 (A waiting move that does exist)}
F Tier:
16. a4 (The better of the two rooks to develop, this is a terrible opening)
17. h4 (The worse of the two rooks to develop, this is a terrible opening)
18. Na3 (The better of the two knights to develop, this is a terrible opening)
19. Nh3 (The worse of the two knights to develop, this is a terrible opening)
20. f3 (The worst opening in chess, a waiting move that actively invites an attack on your king and will never support anything later on, often wastes a tempo for f2-f3 f3-f4 later in the game)

Your ranking is pretty nice also. The main thing I disagree with is h4. It won't work against a gm, but it is certainly playable, and can cripple black's kingside structure while you castle queen side.