Is 1. ...g6 (aka the Modern Defence) a good response to the English?

Sort:
generickplayer

It seems to score even higher than the Reversed Sicilian according to an online database.

eaguiraud

It is called "the great snake", I use it against the English and it gives me satisfactory results.

Rumo75

1...g6 against 1.c4 is not Modern Defence. And neither is it "great snake". It can become all sorts of things: English opening, Grünfeld, King's Indian, Benoni and plentyful more. Strategically 1...g6 makes sense (I would say slightly more sense than Pirc and Modern), because the diagnonal a1-h8 and especially the d4 square are slightly weakened.

IceKane

The reason behind that must be that English players are less prepared against the Great Snake Variation than other variations. But it doesn't make it any better than the Reverse Sicilian if White knows what he's doing imo. But its transpositional ability makes it a pretty decent defense against the English.

Rumo75

Noone is "less prepared" against 1.c4 g6, because it's merely a transpositional tool, which by the way is used a lot. I play it myself. I could play 1...c5, but I prefer to keep the option of transposing into Grünfeld, especially against opponents rated <2200, where this gives me better chances to play for a win. And I don't mind if white plays 2.d4, because Modern Benoni is part of my repertoire.

BronsteinPawn
Rumo75 escribió:

Noone is "less prepared" against 1.c4 g6, because it's merely a transpositional tool, which by the way is used a lot. I play it myself. I could play 1...c5, but I prefer to keep the option of transposing into Grünfeld, especially against opponents rated <2200, where this gives me better chances to play for a win. And I don't mind if white plays 2.d4, because Modern Benoni is part of my repertoire.

But, but, the Modern Benoni is too hard, what do you play against the Modern Line? a6 or the inmediate b5?

blueemu
IceKane wrote:

The reason behind that must be that English players are less prepared against the Great Snake Variation than other variations. But it doesn't make it any better than the Reverse Sicilian if White knows what he's doing imo. But its transpositional ability makes it a pretty decent defense against the English.

Come now... if 1. ... g6 scores better in databases than 1. ... e5 against the English Opening, the most LIKELY reason is that many low-rated players tend to select the straightforward center move (1. ... e5) while a fair number of high-rated players choose the more transpositional (and somewhat more subtle) 1. ... g6 instead.

The difference in winning percentages (in the database) might have nothing to do with any difference in the objective value of the two moves. This early in the game, almost any reasonable move will lead to a balanced position if followed up correctly.

Rumo75
BronsteinPawn hat geschrieben:
Rumo75 escribió:

Noone is "less prepared" against 1.c4 g6, because it's merely a transpositional tool, which by the way is used a lot. I play it myself. I could play 1...c5, but I prefer to keep the option of transposing into Grünfeld, especially against opponents rated <2200, where this gives me better chances to play for a win. And I don't mind if white plays 2.d4, because Modern Benoni is part of my repertoire.

But, but, the Modern Benoni is too hard, what do you play against the Modern Line? a6 or the inmediate b5?

Modern Benoni is certainly far from being an opening that I would usually recommend. It's one of the less likely openings to appear after 1.c4 g6. In fact I was slightly imprecise, after 1.c4 g6 2.d4 white doesn't have to allow Modern Benoni anymore, as he has the time now to play e4 and exd5. (Not a problem for me, because the delayed Benoni, where black does not take on d5 immediately, is also part of my repertoire.)

Modern mainline isn't really the problem though. Among grandmasters this line is nowadays just considers to be equal because if black's 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.h3 Bg7 8.Nf3 0-0 9.Bd3 b5. After 10.Nxb5 black has to know a couple of very precise moves to draw, while after 10.Bxb5 Nxe4 11.Nxe4 Qa5+ 12.Nfd2 Qxb5 13.Nxd6 Nd7 14.N2c4, when the old 14...Nb6?!, which offers white a slight edge, was replaced by the better move 14...Ne5, and again simplification into a drawn position can hardly be avoided.

Most unpleasant variations for black in the Modern Benoni are probably 7.f4 and 8.Bb5, and 7.Bf4.

u0110001101101000

 Winning % at move 1 is dumb.

Win % from a database with games from players below GM is dumb.

My 0.02

Novagames
Rumo75 wrote:

1...g6 against 1.c4 is not Modern Defence. And neither is it "great snake".

 

It is called,you are a all knowing snob

https://www.chess.com/openings/A10_English_Opening_Great_Snake_Variation

BronsteinPawn
Rumo75 escribió:
BronsteinPawn hat geschrieben:
Rumo75 escribió:

Noone is "less prepared" against 1.c4 g6, because it's merely a transpositional tool, which by the way is used a lot. I play it myself. I could play 1...c5, but I prefer to keep the option of transposing into Grünfeld, especially against opponents rated <2200, where this gives me better chances to play for a win. And I don't mind if white plays 2.d4, because Modern Benoni is part of my repertoire.

But, but, the Modern Benoni is too hard, what do you play against the Modern Line? a6 or the inmediate b5?

Modern Benoni is certainly far from being an opening that I would usually recommend. It's one of the less likely openings to appear after 1.c4 g6. In fact I was slightly imprecise, after 1.c4 g6 2.d4 white doesn't have to allow Modern Benoni anymore, as he has the time now to play e4 and exd5. (Not a problem for me, because the delayed Benoni, where black does not take on d5 immediately, is also part of my repertoire.)

Modern mainline isn't really the problem though. Among grandmasters this line is nowadays just considers to be equal because if black's 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.h3 Bg7 8.Nf3 0-0 9.Bd3 b5. After 10.Nxb5 black has to know a couple of very precise moves to draw, while after 10.Bxb5 Nxe4 11.Nxe4 Qa5+ 12.Nfd2 Qxb5 13.Nxd6 Nd7 14.N2c4, when the old 14...Nb6?!, which offers white a slight edge, was replaced by the better move 14...Ne5, and again simplification into a drawn position can hardly be avoided.

Most unpleasant variations for black in the Modern Benoni are probably 7.f4 and 8.Bb5, and 7.Bf4.

Yep. 10...b5 needs some theory by Black, but I guess White also needs to know some theory to be able to punish/test Black.

However I dont think they are a problem in correspondence, where you can consult the GM repertoire books.

Thanks for your comment.

u0110001101101000

I guess I'll add:

Naming an opening after 1 move is dumb.

BronsteinPawn
0110001101101000 escribió:

I guess I'll add:

Naming an opening after 1 move is dumb.

You forgot the following.

"Just my 0.3 percent duds, IM HUMBLE AS HELL".

u0110001101101000

Naa, that last one was not humble, I really meant it was dumb. "Great Snake Opening" lol, as if anyone's ever heard of that crap.

Rumo explains it really well in #3

BronsteinPawn

I dont blame them, the bar on the top of the moves in live and online chess says "Great Snake" after 1.c4 g6.

Brb2023bruhh

it's good

Rumo75
Novagames hat geschrieben:
Rumo75 wrote:

1...g6 against 1.c4 is not Modern Defence. And neither is it "great snake".

 

It is called,you are a all knowing snob

https://www.chess.com/openings/A10_English_Opening_Great_Snake_Variation

And you think that some American website's opening register has any authority in this regard? What probably happened is that some clown who wanted to sell a chess video came up with this silliness, and it became viral among the sub-1400 online crowd.

u0110001101101000
uscftigerprowl wrote:
0110001101101000 wrote:

I guess I'll add:

Naming an opening after 1 move is dumb.

 

How about 1.Na3? What would that transpose to?

I know what you're saying, and it's not like I completely disagree.

But after some moves people would look at the pawn structure and call it e.g. "this is like a ____ where white has played Na3" where _____ would be whatever opening the pawn structure indicates whether it be a french, sicilian, slav, grunfeld, etc.

ArgoNavis

Talking about openings with random names:

https://www.chess.com/opening/eco/B06_Modern_Defense_Three_Pawns_Pterodactyl_Austrian_Austriadactylus_Western_Variation

Shafiq1099

iamunknown2 wrote:

It seems to score even higher than the Reversed Sicilian according to an online database.

iamunknown2 wrote: It seems to score even higher than the Reversed Sicilian according to an online database.