Is Alekhine Defense playable at high level?

Sort:
PawN_Heart

Or is a busted defense?  

ThrillerFan

Inferior!  Not "busted".

The reason you rarely ever see it at the top level are because 1...e5, the sicilian, the French, and the Caro-kann are all vastly superior defenses and bring Black very close to full equality.  The others do not with correct play by White.

PawN_Heart
ThrillerFan escreveu:

Inferior!  Not "busted".

The reason you rarely ever see it at the top level are because 1...e5, the sicilian, the French, and the Caro-kann are all vastly superior defenses and bring Black very close to full equality.  The others do not with correct play by White.

 

I was watching the Nakamura speedrun to 3000 points in blitz and he played a lot of alekhine when he was 1600~2000 and he won every single game. But it's a super GM, even if he played some creepy openings he would still win.  

I liked the defense, it can be very cheesy if opponent don't know her very well 

 

 

OldPatzerMike

GM Lev Alburt played the Alekhine frequently...161 times according to chessgames.com. He won 59 and lost 58. But his career was in the days before GMs used computers in their opening preparation. The risky nature of the defense, as evidenced by the low percentage of draws Alburt had with it, would not likely be very appealing in serious high level games today. 

Pulpofeira

Vladimir Bagirov as well.

Lobster333

The Alekhine is playable but risky. If you get a bad position, it is often a very bad position. It is dynamic and asymmetrical and something of a rarity, which means it can sometimes have surprise value against somebody that knows the Ruy or the Sicilian 15 moves deep. I suppose that is why Fischer used it in the match with Spassky.

ThrillerFan
OrganizaesCapivara wrote:
ThrillerFan escreveu:

Inferior!  Not "busted".

The reason you rarely ever see it at the top level are because 1...e5, the sicilian, the French, and the Caro-kann are all vastly superior defenses and bring Black very close to full equality.  The others do not with correct play by White.

 

I was watching the Nakamura speedrun to 3000 points in blitz and he played a lot of alekhine when he was 1600~2000 and he won every single game. But it's a super GM, even if he played some creepy openings he would still win.  

I liked the defense, it can be very cheesy if opponent don't know her very well 

 

 

 

Blitz is garbage when it comes to evaluating soundness.  A GM could play 1.e4 h5 at blitz and have a far better chance of surviving than 1...h5 or even 1...Nf6 in classic time controls.

Also, if you are going to try to counter hard facts with one case of blitz chess, like as if you already knew what predetermined answer you wanted to hear, why ask the question?

OldPatzerMike
Pulpofeira wrote:

Vladimir Bagirov as well.

Quite right. I'd forgotten about him. He played the Alekhine almost as much as Alburt: 158 times. And he had a somewhat better record, with 54 wins and only 27 losses.

BonTheCat

Vladimir Bagirov also played the Caro-Kann regularly!

 

PawN_Heart
ThrillerFan escreveu:
OrganizaesCapivara wrote:
ThrillerFan escreveu:

Inferior!  Not "busted".

The reason you rarely ever see it at the top level are because 1...e5, the sicilian, the French, and the Caro-kann are all vastly superior defenses and bring Black very close to full equality.  The others do not with correct play by White.

 

I was watching the Nakamura speedrun to 3000 points in blitz and he played a lot of alekhine when he was 1600~2000 and he won every single game. But it's a super GM, even if he played some creepy openings he would still win.  

I liked the defense, it can be very cheesy if opponent don't know her very well 

 

 

 

Blitz is garbage when it comes to evaluating soundness.  A GM could play 1.e4 h5 at blitz and have a far better chance of surviving than 1...h5 or even 1...Nf6 in classic time controls.

Also, if you are going to try to counter hard facts with one case of blitz chess, like as if you already knew what predetermined answer you wanted to hear, why ask the question?

chill out, dude. I'm not trying to counter hard facts. 

varelse1

Okay funny story.

I went to a tournament once with my buddy. 

He was rated about 2000. And he was a complete Dogmatist/chauvinist/sexist.

My friend got paired, as white, against a WFM. He opened with his typical 1e4, and his opponent replied 1....Nf6. And she went on, to destroy him.

My friend was devastated. The whole way home he was griping about how she had beaten him. "I have never lost a game before, in which I got zero counterplay! And I had the white pieces!!"

And of course, his wife was teasing him about it "And she didn't have a weenie, either!" I had to laugh.

But anyway. we get back to his house. I am sitting there on the couch, I see he has some old Chess Life magazines sitting out. So I pick one up, and start thumbing through it.

In it, I find a letter sent into Joel Benjamin's column, from that very same WFM. Asking his advise about a line in the Alekhine's Defense. Joel Benjamin answered "Well first off, don't play the Alekhine's! Only Lev Alburt can make it work!."

I ran to my buddy, and showed him that.

He got so mad.

tongue.png

varelse1

But I firmly believe there is no such thing as an "Inferior opening", below 2000 rating. And maybe beyond.

Either you understand and are comfortable with the resulting middlegame, or not.

ThrillerFan
varelse1 wrote:

But I firmly believe there is no such thing as an "Inferior opening", below 2000 rating. And maybe beyond.

Either you understand and are comfortable with the resulting middlegame, or not.

That does not answer the question.  Read the subject line.  At a high level.  Below 2000 is not a high level.

You could play 1...h6 and 2...a6 at the chump level.

 

And being below a certain level does not change inferiority.  You could be 2700, 2200, or 900.  The Alekhine is still inferior to the "Big 4" (e5,c5,e6,c6).  The only difference is you can easily get away with inferiority when below 2000.

varelse1

Thirllerfan

I think I answered that question, in the post above that one.

Using Benjamin's words.

DiscipleOfKeres

It is playable, it has simply fallen out of fashion. However, games can get pretty sharp. I sometimes employ this old line, however black lost this game :

I like playing the four pawns as black in blitz.

Since this is an American website, I have to include the Fischer game...

Two Carlsen games, if that piques your interest.

As Black, it is kind of difficult to get into positions you want to if White knows what they are doing. However, if Black manages to complicate enough, there should be pretty interesting play on board.

MorphysMayhem
OrganizaesCapivara wrote:

Or is a busted defense?  

Well Alekhine played it, so there you go..........

Muisuitglijder

It is a respectable opening. So if you like it, then by all means go ahead and play it. But you do run the risk of getting into positions that you find hard to play. Much more then you would playing the more mainstream defenses.But you can always try it for a while happy.png

Lobster333

I think Varelse1 made a good point about understanding the typical middle game transitions. DiscipleofKeres was right about very sharp lines coming out of the Alekhine, with some slight edge for white overall. I think it is roughly as sound as the Pirc/Modern complex of fianchetto defenses. The same sort of counterpunching players seem to favor both because of the asymmetries.

Muisuitglijder
Lobster333 schreef:

I think it is roughly as sound as the Pirc/Modern complex of fianchetto defenses. The same sort of counterpunching players seem to favor both because of the asymmetries.

thumbup.png

joseb84

Interesting debate. I commented to my dad recently that having followed top-level classical chess fairly closely for the past 18 months I'd not seen a single Alekhine's defence, whereas when he was younger it appeared as a serious opening fairly regularly, even if mostly as an occasional weapon. Anyone have examples of it in Super GM classical games in competitive tournaments over the past 15 years or so?