Is chess all about winning?

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George1st

Single word.....Fun.

George1st
Shivsky wrote:
GlennBk wrote:

Chess is all about playing, haven't you ever offered your opponent the chance to take back a stupid mistake rather than spoil the game?

Only in the occasion that I play somebody considerably weaker and without a clock or if it's somebody (who makes the terrible mistake of) expecting me to talk through/help them with their chess.  

Even casual games at the clubs require clocks + move discipline (touch move/piece)  or else you gain nothing from the experience, training wise to prepare you for actual tournament play.

Haven't you ever felt you deserved to lose and admired your opponents slick winning combination?

Deserved to lose?  Unless he's a computer engine, I don't think so. Admire?  Yes ... believe there is a refutation that he missed and I will fight tooth and nail to find? Even more so.

Are you proud when you beat an opponent who you always beat?

Not really, because you really should go after somebody new who is the one to beat.

On the comment that it should be all about playing : I used to crumble instantly  vs. stronger players purely on the basis that I thought of them as Gods. I used to admire the way they tore me apart with a "gee, shucks, these guys are so good" mentality. One of the first things that helped me start getting wins against them is to 

a) Realize that they are human and make mistakes too.

b) Transitioning my mental state from basking in these "chess is beautiful, enjoy the scenery, finding the perfect move is the one goal, it's okay to lose as long as you gave him a good fight" delusional rays of sunshine to a "stop making excuses + work really hard at MATING THE BASTARD across the table using whatever means possible."

If you are even remotely serious about playing this game,  you just have to put winning on top of anything else.


I am probably no use in this subject. I am not even remotely serious. Just new to the game and enjoying it.

George1st
ReasonableDoubt wrote:
Shivsky wrote:
GlennBk wrote:

Chess is all about playing, haven't you ever offered your opponent the chance to take back a stupid mistake rather than spoil the game?

Only in the occasion that I play somebody considerably weaker and without a clock or if it's somebody (who makes the terrible mistake of) expecting me to talk through/help them with their chess.  

Even casual games at the clubs require clocks + move discipline (touch move/piece)  or else you gain nothing from the experience, training wise to prepare you for actual tournament play.

I find this to be somewhat ridiculous.  What do you gain from winning on a blunder in a very complicated position?  How does that prepare you for tournament play?  The fact of the matter is that it doesn't.  Every game should be a learning experience, and you take away from that when you punish your opponent for every mistake he makes.  When I play casually with friends (who are serious about improving and relatively close to my level) takebacks are a staple of the game.  We are trying to improve our game, so we often analyze positions or go back and see what should have been done differently for both sides and how the resulting position would have worked out/what plans both sides would have.   

Haven't you ever felt you deserved to lose and admired your opponents slick winning combination?

Deserved to lose?  Unless he's a computer engine, I don't think so. Admire?  Yes ... believe there is a refutation that he missed and I will fight tooth and nail to find? Even more so.

"Deserved to lose" is a losing attitude.  I pretty much agree with Shivsky's post, although there are some cases in which defeat is almost inevitable and you just can't resist being amazed (playing against GMs or playing against engines).  

Are you proud when you beat an opponent who you always beat?

Not really, because you really should go after somebody new who is the one to beat.

On the comment that it should be all about playing : I used to crumble instantly  vs. stronger players purely on the basis that I thought of them as Gods. I used to admire the way they tore me apart with a "gee, shucks, these guys are so good" mentality. One of the first things that helped me start getting wins against them is to 

a) Realize that they are human and make mistakes too.

b) Transitioning my mental state from basking in these "chess is beautiful, enjoy the scenery, finding the perfect move is the one goal, it's okay to lose as long as you gave him a good fight" delusional rays of sunshine to a "stop making excuses + work really hard at MATING THE BASTARD across the table using whatever means possible."

Losing is motivation.  There is nothing wrong with losing, as that is what motivates me to win, and what teaches me what I did wrong.  Losing is more important than winning to a chess player.  Also, I don't agree with the whole "MATE THE BASTARD with whatever means possible".  It shouldn't be all about winning.  It should be about playing your best chess, and if you do that you can see who wins.  If all you care about is winning you'll end up just playing trap lines and cheap tricks and winning games but not getting any better.  It's the kind of mentality that condones 4 move checkmate at lower levels.  Win at all costs, including any chess improvement or attempt to appreciate the beauty of the game.

If you are even remotely serious about playing this game,  you just have to put winning on top of anything else.

I can not express in words how wrong this statement is.  Chess should be about fun and learning.  If you only play to win, you will not go far.  If you truly enjoy the game and study hard, winning will come.  Winning should NOT be the destination, it should be the gift by the side of the road.  The destination should be true chess understanding and the winning will come later.  I guarantee that almost no serious player will say that they care about winning more than anything else.  



Good on ya mate! Enjoyed reading sense. Thank you.

gztgztgzt

Well, here's the attitude I take: if you're trying to become a better player, you obviously have to try your best to win every game. But if you're winning every game, you're not going to learn much. You need to play strong opposition who will punish your mistakes. In a certain sense, it's all about winning, as you're trying to make the best move you can in the time contraints you have for every move of every game. In another sense, it's not all about winning, in that you shouldn't set things up so that you have the best winning percentage. If I just wanted to win, I could choose to play only people who barely know the rules. I'd rather play people strong enough that I only score 30-40%.

At the end of the day, though, it's all about what your goal is. A lot of people realize they don't have the time and energy to try to improve or even give their best shot during a game. Their goal is to have fun, exercise the mind, socialize, etc. Obviously, they should try to win when they play! To do otherwise would be discourteous to their opponents. But they need not try their best. Everything always comes down to your goals.

d4e4

Only losers talk about chess being anything but winning (with integrity, of course).

And fun...sure, winning is always fun; losing never is.

And learning...sure, it is always good to learn more about how to win.

And socializing...there I'm stumped. Maybe take up Bunco.

d4e4

Why would you two freeloading losers care what I do?

d4e4

And yes, I know how the pieces move...the horsey goes this way and the cardinal goes that way. The whatchamacallit pieces on the ends...that I'm working on.

d4e4

Anthony: What you been drinking?

d4e4

She doesn't think it is necessary to learn openings; that's what databases are for. Seems to be a common thought these days. 

Learning endings...same thing. So tactics, shmactics, prophylactics...that's all you need.

I don't write the news; I just report it. Hell, I don't even know how to...what do you call it...shuffle the pieces.

BTW...I once knew a guy who had "strategic" in his screen name. Odd, that word. Strategic??? God, how awful!

George1st
LinuxMan wrote:

First of all it is a good mental exercise. Winning or losing, that depends on your attitude. In my case, losing hurts when I make a simple (or stupid) blunder, e.g. leaving your queen when it is obviously under attack. Losing to a better player does not hurt me at all, especially when I played a decent game. I consider it a learning experience!


"in my case" Nice! Good if more thought like you.

George1st
AnthonyCG wrote:

The reason that many people don't play chess is to avoid those with that mentality....

I suppose everyone has their own reasons for playing but they can't all be healthy...


Anthony. Of course our comment wa going to be sensible. Cool. See you soon buddy : )))

bigpoison
d4e4 wrote:

She doesn't think it is necessary to learn openings; that's what databases are for. Seems to be a common thought these days. 

Learning endings...same thing. So tactics, shmactics, prophylactics...that's all you need.

I don't write the news; I just report it. Hell, I don't even know how to...what do you call it...shuffle the pieces.

BTW...I once knew a guy who had "strategic" in his screen name. Odd, that word. Strategic??? God, how awful!


I remember ChessStrategist!  He was a bad dude.  Not to be trifled with.

d4e4
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bigpoison

I heard that he wasn't the toughest guy in town, but that he was sleeping with the wife of the toughest guy in town, and the tough dude knew it.

MrMonkeyWrench

Leave the kid alone. You boys are asking for trouble.

d4e4

My uncle said they are doing a T analysis on you, fezzik. Looks like you are close to being past tense.

oinquarki
ReasonableDoubt wrote:

I'm guessing that MrMonkeyWrench is the same person as d4e4 and ChessStrategist.  His ego is too large to fit into two different accounts, so he has to let it spill over into a third.


Yeah, I think at some point he told somebody to meethis friend Mr. Monkeywrench in a dark alley or something like that, was accused of making a threat, and then proved Mr. Monkeywrench was a real person to save his good name.

d4e4
[COMMENT DELETED]
oinquarki

I'm curious just how much lenience a diamond membership gets this guy.

bigpoison

I heard that he can crush diamonds with his bare hands!