Is my opening good against King's Indian Defense

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Avatar of Tactician33

Hello! In my next tournament game ill play against someone who mostly uses the King's Indian. Is the Colle-Zukertort good against the King's Indian, and if so how to deal with the lack of possibility of moving the knight to e5 because queen c7? Thanks!!

Avatar of ChessSBM

I haven’t watch it yet, but it might be worth watching for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g52W18fpy4k

Avatar of Tactician33
ChessSBM wrote:

I haven’t watch it yet, but it might be worth watching for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g52W18fpy4k

Thank you very much!!

Avatar of GeorgeWyhv14

I prefer King Indian over Colle-Zukertort.

Avatar of sndeww
GeorgeWyhv14 wrote:

I prefer King Indian over Colle-Zukertort.

KID is a black opening, colle is a white opening? At least in terms of the OP.

Avatar of sndeww
adikatz3 wrote:

Hello! In my next tournament game ill play against someone who mostly uses the King's Indian. Is the Colle-Zukertort good against the King's Indian, and if so how to deal with the lack of possibility of moving the knight to e5 because queen c7? Thanks!!

The colle is not a challenging line against the King's Indian. This does not mean it is a bad choice. White will probably have to abandon any ideas of playing Ne5, though. c4 then Nc3 is probably better than he Nbd2 setup; Be2 is a better place than Bd3.

Avatar of Tactician33
B1ZMARK wrote:
adikatz3 wrote:

Hello! In my next tournament game ill play against someone who mostly uses the King's Indian. Is the Colle-Zukertort good against the King's Indian, and if so how to deal with the lack of possibility of moving the knight to e5 because queen c7? Thanks!!

The colle is not a challenging line against the King's Indian. This does not mean it is a bad choice. White will probably have to abandon any ideas of playing Ne5, though. c4 then Nc3 is probably better than he Nbd2 setup; Be2 is a better place than Bd3.

Thanks!! That helps alot happy.png

Avatar of ThrillerFan
adikatz3 wrote:

Hello! In my next tournament game ill play against someone who mostly uses the King's Indian. Is the Colle-Zukertort good against the King's Indian, and if so how to deal with the lack of possibility of moving the knight to e5 because queen c7? Thanks!!

 

The Colle is no good against Fianchetto Defenses.  If you are going to play QP Openings without 2.c4, you need to learn more than one because no one of them works against everything.

Here's the breakdown:

 

London System - Works ok against 1...d5 lines, 1...Nf6/2...g6, 1...Nf6/2...e6.  When does it fail?  Modern Defense (1...g6)

 

Trompowsky Attack - Works against 1...Nf6 and 2.Bg5 can be played against 1...f5.  Fails otherwise.

 

Torre Attack - Works against 1...Nf6/2...g6 or 1...Nf6/2...e6.  Fails against early ...d5 lines (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bg5? or 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bg5? fail because of 3...Ne4, 4...Qd6, and 5...Qh6).

 

Colle (Koltanowski and Zukertort) - Works only when Black's LSB is hemmed in by ...e6, so lines like 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 are fine.  If Black plays the move order 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6, you can play 3.e3, but if anything other than 3...e6, like 3...Bf5 or 3...c6, then the only move is 4.c4!  If you wish to completely avoid this, then after something like 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5, you should play the Torre or London.

 

 

So as you can see, they all have their warts.  You can play the London and main lines of the Modern Defense (White side).  You can play the Colle and London.  You could play the Colle and Torre.  There are other possibilities, but trying to use only one of them as a fully standalone opening repertoire will fail.

Avatar of Tactician33
ThrillerFan wrote:
adikatz3 wrote:

Hello! In my next tournament game ill play against someone who mostly uses the King's Indian. Is the Colle-Zukertort good against the King's Indian, and if so how to deal with the lack of possibility of moving the knight to e5 because queen c7? Thanks!!

 

The Colle is no good against Fianchetto Defenses.  If you are going to play QP Openings without 2.c4, you need to learn more than one because no one of them works against everything.

Here's the breakdown:

 

London System - Works ok against 1...d5 lines, 1...Nf6/2...g6, 1...Nf6/2...e6.  When does it fail?  Modern Defense (1...g6)

 

Trompowsky Attack - Works against 1...Nf6 and 2.Bg5 can be played against 1...f5.  Fails otherwise.

 

Torre Attack - Works against 1...Nf6/2...g6 or 1...Nf6/2...e6.  Fails against early ...d5 lines (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bg5? or 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bg5? fail because of 3...Ne4, 4...Qd6, and 5...Qh6).

 

Colle (Koltanowski and Zukertort) - Works only when Black's LSB is hemmed in by ...e6, so lines like 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 are fine.  If Black plays the move order 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6, you can play 3.e3, but if anything other than 3...e6, like 3...Bf5 or 3...c6, then the only move is 4.c4!  If you wish to completely avoid this, then after something like 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5, you should play the Torre or London.

 

 

So as you can see, they all have their warts.  You can play the London and main lines of the Modern Defense (White side).  You can play the Colle and London.  You could play the Colle and Torre.  There are other possibilities, but trying to use only one of them as a fully standalone opening repertoire will fail.

I didn't think about it, Ill try to learn the London and the Torre more, thanks!

Avatar of GeorgeWyhv14
B1ZMARK wrote:
GeorgeWyhv14 wrote:

I prefer King Indian over Colle-Zukertort.

KID is a black opening, colle is a white opening? At least in terms of the OP.

ok.

Avatar of blank0923

I have no experience with this scenario in tournament chess, but I have played it before in online blitz and especially bullet. My experience has always been that it's a little difficult to do something with the White position, and I always find myself looking for a little more activity somehow.

I think that form of activity could come in the form of 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 (assuming this is the move order you play) and now 4.b4!? instead of b3 allows White to gain a little bit more space on the queenside. Of course here Black can play 4...d5 which would lead to territory somewhat independent of the KID, but I think it's something you could check out.

Avatar of darkunorthodox88
blank0923 wrote:

I have no experience with this scenario in tournament chess, but I have played it before in online blitz and especially bullet. My experience has always been that it's a little difficult to do something with the White position, and I always find myself looking for a little more activity somehow.

I think that form of activity could come in the form of 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 (assuming this is the move order you play) and now 4.b4!? instead of b3 allows White to gain a little bit more space on the queenside. Of course here Black can play 4...d5 which would lead to territory somewhat independent of the KID, but I think it's something you could check out.

OH this is a clever idea, if you to avoid KID theory and jump to a variation of the Orangutan where white plays for early d4.

Avatar of Tactician33

Thank you all for your help and tips, I won that game yesterday after 3 and a half hours. I agree that we both had to do literally nothing in the middlegame, I think I won because of my good endgame skills.

Avatar of Kowarenai

congrats on the win and hope you improve more and beyond