Is rapid development ever a mistake in the opening?

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Avatar of StinkingHyena

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Avatar of my137thaccount
StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Why play Nc3 only against the Petroff?

The same position is reached, and you don't have to bother with the Ruy Lopez.

Avatar of my137thaccount

 

Avatar of MickinMD

Rapid development is important, particularly if some of it threatens your opponent. But you can’t exclude Pawn moves that either help control the center or are prophylactic moves like a3, h3, a6, and h6 to keep opposing Bishops from pinning your Knights or opposing Knights from finding a good 5th rank outpost.

Avatar of Laskersnephew
In the simplest terms, when the position is open, quick development and early castling are critical. When the position is more closed, the emphasis is on getting your pieces to the right squares and not obstruct your critical pawn breaks. Correct development is more important to
Avatar of navi3702
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:

StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Loses by force

its not losing

Avatar of navi3702
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:

StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Loses by force

its not losing

You are wrong,  learn something before you speak on these forums.

You clearly dont understand dynamics.

Avatar of my137thaccount
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:

StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Loses by force

its not losing

You are wrong,  learn something before you speak on these forums.

Neither of you have yet proven your cases. If there is a refutation, show the lines - if there isn't, acknowledge that you know the claimed refutation and explain why it's wrong.

Avatar of my137thaccount
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:

StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Loses by force

its not losing

You are wrong,  learn something before you speak on these forums.

You clearly dont understand dynamics.

No it's you who doesn't understand the dynamics and cannot evaluate the position correctly.  Btw it's "don't" you retard.  Your English is as bad as your chess.

You guys are still arguing about nothing.

Avatar of navi3702
my137thaccount wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:

StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Loses by force

its not losing

You are wrong,  learn something before you speak on these forums.

You clearly dont understand dynamics.

No it's you who doesn't understand the dynamics and cannot evaluate the position correctly.  Btw it's "don't" you retard.  Your English is as bad as your chess.

You guys are still arguing about nothing.

ahh, he has been making offensive comments at people at other threads. Its not really nothing, sorry for bringing the argument into this thread

Avatar of navi3702
my137thaccount wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:
navi3702 wrote:
MyNameIsAsuna420 wrote:

StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

Loses by force

its not losing

You are wrong,  learn something before you speak on these forums.

Neither of you have yet proven your cases. If there is a refutation, show the lines - if there isn't, acknowledge that you know the claimed refutation and explain why it's wrong.

After that position, we can see white has sacrificed 3 pawns, but he has a lot of activity. White has two bishops on long diagonals, his position is open, and after Nf3 is ready to facilitate castling. Black however, has no pieces out yet compared to blacks bishops, his pieces still stuck behind pawns and it will be at least 3 moves before Black can castle. On top of that, the evaluation is just -0.5 and it cant be too bad for White. Usually after losing 3 pawns, you would be -3 or somewhere there. But since the evaluation is -0.5 that means White has almost sufficient, if not fully sufficient, compensation for the 3 pawns.

Avatar of navi3702

By the way, anyone can see that guy Asunas account? Has he been banned or am I just blocked from seeing him?

Avatar of TwoMove

Capablanca often gets the credit for highlighting the importance of purposeful opening moves in his games, rather than just rapid.  Am sure there were strong players doing this before him. 

As white "doing the unpacking" is unlikely to give you a very bad game, but also unlikely to give you any advantage.

Avatar of ThrillerFan

Long story short, this is why you should play 1.d4 d5 and 1.e4 e5 with both colors until you are 2000.  General principles apply.  Develop fast and castle.  When you start getting into all of these exceptions, which are in many of the other lines, you confuse yourself.  For example, it is typically bad for Black to castle quickly in the 4.Be3 line of the Pirc or in the KIA vs Sicilian.  When you have to worry about exceptions, you get these problems.  Stick to openings that follow basic principles like the Ruy Lopez and QGD. 

Avatar of navi3702
DeirdreSkye wrote:

He has been banned. He is a well known troll that always returns.

Hahahahah

Avatar of navi3702
TwoMove wrote:

Capablanca often gets the credit for highlighting the importance of purposeful opening moves in his games, rather than just rapid.  Am sure there were strong players doing this before him. 

As white "doing the unpacking" is unlikely to give you a very bad game, but also unlikely to give you any advantage.

yup agreed

Avatar of 85_PorsheTurbo

Your question seem flawed at its base, so your conclusion must obviously be shaky. if - if. Sometimes I run, sometimes I hide, sometimes I´m scared of you.. lalalala I am a little surprised almost 2000 in doubt regarding the existence of such thing as "feel" for the position. Where the principality of the principles fluctuate, interlaced with the current status of affairs. Because that how it presents itself. And with a terrifying scream. From the current point of my relation with chess, it is absurd. Playing, and observing - a huge part of the successful play is to be able to ´broke´ the emerging position. To maintain mutability in case it is needed. Maybe the true form of your question should be: how often the mutability is needed?

 I will be monitoring your discussion in case you could rain down some sudden enlightenment in regards to the discussed topic.

Avatar of StinkingHyena
85_PorsheTurbo wrote:

Your question seem flawed at its base, so your conclusion must obviously be shaky. if - if. Sometimes I run, sometimes I hide, sometimes I´m scared of you.. lalalala I am a little surprised almost 2000 in doubt regarding the existence of such thing as "feel" for the position. Where the principality of the principles fluctuate, interlaced with the current status of affairs. Because that how it presents itself. And with a terrifying scream. From the current point of my relation with chess, it is absurd. Playing, and observing - a huge part of the successful play is to be able to ´broke´ the emerging position. To maintain mutability in case it is needed. Maybe the true form of your question should be: how often the mutability is needed?

 I will be monitoring your discussion in case you could rain down some sudden enlightenment in regards to the discussed topic.

Not sure what your saying...

Avatar of kaspariano

GM Daniel Naroditsky thinks we should not always play the opening following general principles, he says that when we insist in following general principles we might overlook opportunities for gaining advantages, he says concrete calculation is over all important.  I think he might be right, although I am a little bit too traditional in my playing style to follow his advice.   

Avatar of stiggling
StinkingHyena wrote:

I recently started focusing on simple rapid development in the opening (i.e. parring threats with development so against the petroff playing Nc3, playing either a ruy or guicco against e5, the open sicilian, the winawer or 2. Nf3 against the French (had good results against the French, but cant find a really efficient way to develop). The same for black, looking to develop efficiently, steal tempi, etc.

Basically simple classical chess, develop quickly fight for the center.

I believe its starting show good results, however had a few questions. Is there ever an opening where this is a mistaken strategy? Does this lead to drawish games? (due to piece exchanges).

I guess what I am asking is, I am aware of the hypermodern school, with the gruenfelds and retis and the indians, but was it objectively better that classical chess? Or just an extension of chess in general?

Apologies for rambling.

That's an interesting question.

In some openings there are sort of waiting games. As a 1.e4 player (and I play 1.e4 e5 as black) in particular what comes to mind is the queen's bishop. There are many times it doesn't know where it wants to be yet, so it waits until the opponent has made some choices.

But in general I think your approach is excellent. Just trust the principals even if you don't know the theory or the move seems scary, and then analyze afterwards to learn from the results. Rules of thumb have exceptions, but when you're unsure, it's better to trust them than to work against them.

As for hypermodern, it's just an extension. Anything that gives you a safe king and active pieces is fine. Classical openings tend to be more logical and less justified by fancy tactics (that's why they were discovered first). So lower rated players are usually advised to play classically at first so that they're more easily able to absorb some of this underlying logic. In hypermodern openings, logic still applies, but there tends to be an extra layer of tactics and strategic finesse to work through.