Baadur Jobava very recently won a game in the bird in the swedish Team ch vs a 2500 GM. Look that up
is the bird (f4) a sound opening?
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mecuelgalapieza wrote:
According to engines, you give away more than a quarter of pawn witha some mainstream openings, such as the KID, the Benoni... Even with white, ten years ago the Italian game was considered a suboptimal opening, nowadays everyone is playing it. Carsen has set a revival for some forgotten openings, the Colle for example, I wouldn´t be surprised if he gives a try to the Bird one of this days.
Not likely. The Bird is nowhere near as viable as the Italian. Also, the Bird gives up almost half a pawn according to the engines (evals at -0.20 down from 0.20 to 0.25 for very best openings). My quarter pawn assertion was purely my own playing experience. The Bird exerts no appreciable pressure/initiative off the bat.
no
the Dutch is not sound
Feb 6, 2017
0
#27
the Bird is great, i keep whacking it with the From Gambit, some bloke tried to avoid the From today, whacked him anyway.
Optimissed wrote:
The Bird is bound to be a small positive score. It cannot logically be -0.2, which is human error in the programming. So the Bird probably gives up 0.15
The Bird is bound to be a small positive score. It cannot logically be -0.2, which is human error in the programming. So the Bird probably gives up 0.15
No, the Bird is not "bound to be a small positive score". It weakens the white king's position, which is a trade off for the center pawn. So that is a wash (0.00)...however, the tempo is also lost, and black gets to play...ergo black effectively gets the first move's 0.20 that white handed over (-0.20).
There's no human error in the programming (at least not on this particular point). I will take all the engines' brute force calculations and all the GM and super-GM opinions-by-omission (in that not one of the 1500ish of them plays the Bird as a primary opening, though I do believe there is one or two IMs that champion it) as more authoritative than your premise.
A 2000+ player knows full well that f4 has a built-in disadvantage over e4/d4/c4. The e1-h4 diagonal exposure is an issue the other 3 just don't have, at all. Is it an issue that is worth a whopping 1/5th of a pawn? Yes. Yes it is.
All of chess history is also sitting in judgment here: if f4 were as viable for white as e4/d4/c4, then where would be more than one named opening based on it 
. So, the humans (past and present) have also spoken. This is not a case of some opening just falling out of favor but being just as viable as others, it's a hard disadvantage that cannot be ignored or wheedled out of...small, but also rock solid and not dismissible.
Feb 6, 2017
0
#29
urk escribió:
I think the Bird is actually worse than the Dutch Defense because the black d-pawn hasn't moved two squares.
Black plays a KID with ...e5 and has the easier game.
Black plays a KID with ...e5 and has the easier game.
The only comment that makes sense.
I'm not insulted; more bemused. A great preponderance of the chess world as well as the best evaluations of the best engines available fall on my side of the argument regarding the Bird.
Perhaps...it is your thinking that is inflexible? Just saying...to whit:
About me you said: "it just seems as if you're basing your ideas on principles"
You in the previous post: "I disagree with you on principle"
There's a problem/inconsistency in your logic/outlook/worldview here . A particularly vexing one for someone that prides themselves on logic. Step outside of yourself and take a look.
Feb 25, 2017
0
#31
Someone said Bird is boring, I disagree on that. Out of many hundreds of Bird games I had played here, not a single one was boring. Even those met with 1... e5 or 1...Ng6 tend to open various opportunities for attack.
Bird's only advantage is a fact that there is not so many variations You need to learn as with 1.e4 or 1.d4. So, for someone who don't have great plans, Bird is nice tool to become "good" at chess without too much efforts.
Feb 25, 2017
0
#32
e4_guy wrote:
Someone said Bird is boring, I disagree on that. Out of many hundreds of Bird games I had played here, not a single one was boring. Even those met with 1... e5 or 1...Ng6 tend to open various opportunities for attack.
Bird's only advantage is a fact that there is not so many variations You need to learn as with 1.e4 or 1.d4. So, for someone who don't have great plans, Bird is nice tool to become "good" at chess without too much efforts.
Hey, Richard Rappaport is no 'boring player'...and he wheeled it out against Mart Kraemer in the current edition of the Bundesliga... Jobava used it earlier this year....
Lots of top level GMs have a game or two with it. If black goes for From's gambit I reply 2.E4 for a kings gambit. Some players really seem to hate this.
One of my best wins with the Bird 
The bird is a rather solid opening from my experience. I play it almost every game
If a guy you're playing is all booked up on standard openings, and you're playing him for the first time in an OTB tournament, the Bird's Opening has some shock value.
wfloh wrote:
One of my best wins with the Bird
EXcellent game. I think you could have won earlier with 31.Rf3, threatening 32.Rh3. I don’t think black can stop the mating attack.
BronsteinPawn schreef:
urk escribió:
I think the Bird is actually worse than the Dutch Defense because the black d-pawn hasn't moved two squares.
Black plays a KID with ...e5 and has the easier game.
Black plays a KID with ...e5 and has the easier game.
The only comment that makes sense.
I don t find the comment anywere but it is never the less interesting
After the From gambit 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 ( the Kingsgambit is not a problem if you play 1...e5 on 1.e4 anyway ) black can play 2...d6 the From gambit. And after 1.d4 f5 the Dutch white has after 2.e4 fxe4 no d3 because the pawn is allready on d4. Ok but does that means that the From gambit is better for black then the Dutch for white? What is by the way the best reponse to the Bird 1.f4 ? Is it 1...d5 or 1...e5 ?
I think I've played at least 1500 games here starting with 1.f4. It doesn't always get top develop as Bird opening because of 1...c5 or 1...g6 from black, but it's safe to say I had played enough Bird games to know "some" about it.
It is inferior to two most used openings, one doesn't need an engine to see that.
But I love it, and I play it in 100% of my blitz games as white. I feel comfortable with it, and if I'm not distracted much (usually I am) I can play against any opponent.
But, to say again, Bird is not best tool to win long control game, especially if black avoids From's gambit or modern defense.
If You think that engine is wrong about evaluation after 1.f4 - please let it calculate to 40ply+ level and let us all know the result.