Is the Caro-Kann the opening I was searching for or should I go for 1...e5 ?

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FromMuToYou wrote:

So why is 1..e5 considered best for beginners?

Because you're normally following all the rules of occupying the centre and quick development.

TitanCG

more tactics, e4 pawn is kinda open, e5 pawn is kinda open, less running around in circles pretending you will nab some positional advantage and win in a Karpovian manner...

But that's just me... 

Phelon

Mostly because that is how people are originally taught to play. The Carokann is harder to play for most beginners and requires a variety of playstyles depending on what white tries to do. With e5 you can probably limit the kind of games you have to play.

2mooroo

I think the Petrov is a better choice.  I realize that is still 1..e5 but I assumed you guys were not talking about the Petrov.  Play 2..Nc6 and now the novice will face millions of scary gambit lines and sacrifices.  I remember when I was low rated playing against 2..Nc6 I would see h6 on move 3 all the time.  That's how spooked some of these players were of the Ng5 lines.  As you get better you aren't so worried about these aggressive lines because you've seen almost all of them before and you have an idea how to refute them, but all a beginner knows is "Oh god he's attacking me."
 
My second picks would be the Caro-Kann or the Scandinavian.  "No weaknesses" is exactly what a beginner needs.

kwankaiee

Caro kann is the most defensive.

Phelon
kwankaiee wrote:

Caro kann is the most defensive.

Not always.

 


This is far more aggressive/tactical than anything you'll see in 1. e4 e5

BMeck
Phelon wrote:
kwankaiee wrote:

Caro kann is the most defensive.

Not always.

 

 


This is far more aggressive/tactical than anything you'll see in 1. e4 e5

You must have not heard of the Kings Gambit then, or the Danish... or most else for that matter. I play the Caro almost always against e4 and have never once ran into that particular line. 

Phelon

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

MrDamonSmith

The Caro Kann is perfect for you. Maybe you should consider playing in my tournament here http://www.chess.com/tournament/caro-kann-thematic-tournament it will be ideal training. Also these are perfect for you to (the Slav & London): http://www.chess.com/tournament/slav-thematic-tournament  &  http://www.chess.com/tournament/london-thematic-tournament. You'll be rock solid, a beast, after these. Laughing

MrDamonSmith

Phelon, my wife & I used to watch the tv shows that had your avatar guy on them & we eventually just refered to him as the crazy hair guy. We couldn't remember his name, but we couldn't forget the hair.

2mooroo

Alien guy?

BMeck
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Phelon
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Ya close to HIS rating, not yours. You don't know what those guys play any more than I do. (his live chess blitz rating is 350points higher than yours, 350 points less than mine).

Besides there are many aggressive lines I didn't mention, that was just one example. The vast majority of things I play in the carokann have lots of tension and big attacks. You could look into changing how you play the carokann, it doesn't have to be defensive.

BMeck
Phelon wrote:
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Ya close to HIS rating, not yours. You don't know what those guys play any more than I do. (his live chess blitz rating is 350points higher than yours, 350 points less than mine).

Besides there are many aggressive lines I didn't mention, that was just one example. The vast majority of things I play in the carokann have lots of tension and big attacks. You could look into changing how you play the carokann, it doesn't have to be defensive.

First, I said his rating so I do not see your point there. Second, I am not saying the Caro does not have tactical. I am saying to say e5 is less tactical than c6 is absolutely ignorant. 

Phelon
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Ya close to HIS rating, not yours. You don't know what those guys play any more than I do. (his live chess blitz rating is 350points higher than yours, 350 points less than mine).

Besides there are many aggressive lines I didn't mention, that was just one example. The vast majority of things I play in the carokann have lots of tension and big attacks. You could look into changing how you play the carokann, it doesn't have to be defensive.

First, I said his rating so I do not see your point there. Second, I am not saying the Caro does not have tactical. I am saying to say e5 is less tactical than c6 is absolutely ignorant. 

My point "You don't know what those guys play any more than I do".

How would you know? I say c6 has lines that are more tactical, even gave you an example, and you said you don't even know that line so it doesn't matter. That's the textbook definition of ignorant sir.

BMeck

Never said I did not know it, I said it was never played against me when I play the Caro a lot. You need to show a line that is played often for the level you are talking to to make a point, not some "GM" line that does not even look sound compared to other options. 

Phelon

No i dont. I just need to name a line that is standard sound part of the opening, which I did. If you don't think it's sound you clearly don't know it. It's one of the two main variations of the advanced carokann!

BMeck

If it was "standard" I think chess.com would have it in the database which it does not. You could play it as White to make the game more tactical and then lose because it is an inferior move.

2mooroo

It's certainly not a bad move by any means.  It's funny you say that it isn't played because this is all I used to play against the Caro Kann.  Probably not with stunning results though.  I wouldn't play it now.  I think Tal variation (3.h4) is superior if the idea is provoke movement on the kingside. 

ozzie_c_cobblepot

I don't think 4.g4 is very strong myself, but:

I haven't researched it to the extent required for an offbeat line such as this.

There is also a selection bias at work, since the people who have played 4.g4 against me have to a large extent been relatively weak.