Is the Caro-Kann the opening I was searching for or should I go for 1...e5 ?

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kwankaiee

Caro kann is the most defensive.

Phelon
kwankaiee wrote:

Caro kann is the most defensive.

Not always.

 


This is far more aggressive/tactical than anything you'll see in 1. e4 e5

BMeck
Phelon wrote:
kwankaiee wrote:

Caro kann is the most defensive.

Not always.

 

 


This is far more aggressive/tactical than anything you'll see in 1. e4 e5

You must have not heard of the Kings Gambit then, or the Danish... or most else for that matter. I play the Caro almost always against e4 and have never once ran into that particular line. 

Phelon

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

MrDamonSmith

The Caro Kann is perfect for you. Maybe you should consider playing in my tournament here http://www.chess.com/tournament/caro-kann-thematic-tournament it will be ideal training. Also these are perfect for you to (the Slav & London): http://www.chess.com/tournament/slav-thematic-tournament  &  http://www.chess.com/tournament/london-thematic-tournament. You'll be rock solid, a beast, after these. Laughing

MrDamonSmith

Phelon, my wife & I used to watch the tv shows that had your avatar guy on them & we eventually just refered to him as the crazy hair guy. We couldn't remember his name, but we couldn't forget the hair.

2mooroo

Alien guy?

BMeck
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Phelon
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Ya close to HIS rating, not yours. You don't know what those guys play any more than I do. (his live chess blitz rating is 350points higher than yours, 350 points less than mine).

Besides there are many aggressive lines I didn't mention, that was just one example. The vast majority of things I play in the carokann have lots of tension and big attacks. You could look into changing how you play the carokann, it doesn't have to be defensive.

BMeck
Phelon wrote:
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Ya close to HIS rating, not yours. You don't know what those guys play any more than I do. (his live chess blitz rating is 350points higher than yours, 350 points less than mine).

Besides there are many aggressive lines I didn't mention, that was just one example. The vast majority of things I play in the carokann have lots of tension and big attacks. You could look into changing how you play the carokann, it doesn't have to be defensive.

First, I said his rating so I do not see your point there. Second, I am not saying the Caro does not have tactical. I am saying to say e5 is less tactical than c6 is absolutely ignorant. 

Phelon
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:
BMeck wrote:
Phelon wrote:

I've heard of them. That's still atleast as aggressive a line as the things you mentioned. Aggressive both ways as white and as black. I dont see how it matters if your particular opponents don't play it. Grandmasters certainly play it! It's called Shirov's variation for pete's sake...

The OP is not a grandmaster and will most likely not be playing them anytime soon... so, it is more important what "my" opponents play because 1. They play on this site and 2. They are close to his rating

Ya close to HIS rating, not yours. You don't know what those guys play any more than I do. (his live chess blitz rating is 350points higher than yours, 350 points less than mine).

Besides there are many aggressive lines I didn't mention, that was just one example. The vast majority of things I play in the carokann have lots of tension and big attacks. You could look into changing how you play the carokann, it doesn't have to be defensive.

First, I said his rating so I do not see your point there. Second, I am not saying the Caro does not have tactical. I am saying to say e5 is less tactical than c6 is absolutely ignorant. 

My point "You don't know what those guys play any more than I do".

How would you know? I say c6 has lines that are more tactical, even gave you an example, and you said you don't even know that line so it doesn't matter. That's the textbook definition of ignorant sir.

BMeck

Never said I did not know it, I said it was never played against me when I play the Caro a lot. You need to show a line that is played often for the level you are talking to to make a point, not some "GM" line that does not even look sound compared to other options. 

Phelon

No i dont. I just need to name a line that is standard sound part of the opening, which I did. If you don't think it's sound you clearly don't know it. It's one of the two main variations of the advanced carokann!

BMeck

If it was "standard" I think chess.com would have it in the database which it does not. You could play it as White to make the game more tactical and then lose because it is an inferior move.

2mooroo

It's certainly not a bad move by any means.  It's funny you say that it isn't played because this is all I used to play against the Caro Kann.  Probably not with stunning results though.  I wouldn't play it now.  I think Tal variation (3.h4) is superior if the idea is provoke movement on the kingside. 

ozzie_c_cobblepot

I don't think 4.g4 is very strong myself, but:

I haven't researched it to the extent required for an offbeat line such as this.

There is also a selection bias at work, since the people who have played 4.g4 against me have to a large extent been relatively weak.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
apostolis1 wrote:

I am searching for a solid opening against 1.e4

I normally play the sicilian, but I would like to add something in my repertoire ! So, I am between 1...e5 and 1...c6 (caro kann defence). Which of them do you think offers (in generally, I know that there mihgt be some difficult variations in which I have to play in) more solid postions ?

Thank'you in advance for your answers

It is obvious that you should play 1...c5 (The Sicilian) and 1...c6 (The Half Sicilian)!

Phelon

Mhmmm, and this is why when I plugged 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 into chess.com's game explorer of master games, the two top moves that came up were 4. Nf3 that was played 3,053 times and 4. Nc3 that was played 1706 times

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the most popular follow ups to 4. Nc3 were 4... e6 and 5. g4 which has been played 1130 times in master games.

 

So ya it's the second most played line in the whole advanced carokann at master level. Pretty obscure and unsound like you were saying...

Phelon
FromMuToYou wrote:

It's certainly not a bad move by any means.  It's funny you say that it isn't played because this is all I used to play against the Caro Kann.  Probably not with stunning results though.  I wouldn't play it now.  I think Tal variation (3.h4) is superior if the idea is provoke movement on the kingside. 

Ah yes this 4. g4 is another line where things get kind of dicey in the advanced carokann for both sides. This is a good move for white to beat an unprepared caroplayer, however if the black player knows what he's doing he should atleast be able to equalize if not eventually gain the advantage. I've seen it played a TON on chess.com at all levels.

However that's not the line I was referring to. Mine is 4. Nc3 e6 5. g4 which still holds a potential edge for white and has in no way been refuted. It holds very complex tactical play for both white and black.

2mooroo

Oh sorry I thought we were talking about the 4.g4 line.  Anyway this argument is stupid.  There are hundreds of known variations for both the Caro Kann and the Open game, some of them tactical and some of them not.  We all know this.