it's a good chess opening?????

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Avatar of kingman626
hi everyone it's a good chess opening ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓ 1.Nf3 xxx 2.g3 xxx 3.Bg2 xxx 4.O-O xxx
Avatar of Yigor
DeirdreSkye wrote:

     It's the Reti and it's good but not recommended for your level.Before you learn how to surrender the center and counterattack later you must learn the baisc principles first and how to occupy and dominate the centre.

 

It's not only Réti but, actually, KIApeshka.png

Avatar of kindaspongey

https://www.chess.com/article/view/has-the-king-s-indian-attack-been-forgotten

The King's Indian Attack is sometimes suggested as a sort of quick-fix opening solution for near-beginners, but notice the reservations that IM Watson had while mentioning the idea.
"... For players with very limited experience, I recommend using openings in which the play can be clarified at an early stage, often with a degree of simplification. To accomplish this safely will take a little study, because you will have to get used to playing wiith open lines for both sides' pieces, but you can't eliminate risk entirely in the opening anyway. ... teachers all over the world suggest that inexperienced players begin with 1 e4. ... You will undoubtedly see the reply 1 ... e5 most often when playing at or near a beginner's level, ... After 2 Nf3, 2 ... Nc6 will occur in the bulk of your games. ... I recommend taking up the classical and instructive move 3 Bc4 at an early stage. Then, against 3 ... Bc5, it's thematic to try to establish the ideal centre by 4 c3 and 5 d4; after that, things can get complicated enough that you need to take a look at some theory and learn the basics; ... Of course, you can also play 1 d4 ... A solid and more-or-less universal set-up is 2 Nf3 and 3 Bf4, followed in most cases by 4 e3, 5 Be2 and 6 0-0. I'd rather see my students fight their way through open positions instead; however, if you're not getting out of the opening alive after 1 e4, this method of playing 1 d4 deserves consideration. ... a commonly suggested 'easy' repertoire for White with 1 Nf3 and the King's indian Attack ... doesn't lead to an open game or one with a clear plan for White. Furthermore, it encourages mechanical play. Similarly, teachers sometimes recommend the Colle System ..., which can also be played too automatically, and usually doesn't lead to an open position. For true beginners, the King's Indian Attack and Colle System have the benefit of offering a safe position that nearly guarantees passage to some kind of playable middlegame; they may be a reasonable alternative if other openings are too intimidating. But having gained even a small amount of experience, you really should switch to more open and less automatic play." - IM John Watson in a section of his 2010 book, Mastering the Chess Openings, Volume 4
The KIA is discussed in Winning Chess Openings by GM Yasser Seirawan (1999).
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627132508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen173.pdf
For more on the KIA, one could try The King's Indian Attack: Move by Move by Grandmaster Neil McDonald (2014).
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7277.pdf
Perhaps, it would be of interest to look at The Fianchetto Solution by Emmanuel Neiman and Samy Shoker (2016)
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9029.pdf
and Starting Out: King's Indian Attack by John Emms (2005).
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627034051/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen81.pdf

Avatar of kindaspongey

Some Reti books:
Starting Out: The Reti by Neil McDonald (2010).
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627101228/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen131.pdf
Dynamic Reti by Davies.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627005248/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen64.pdf
The Modernized Reti
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7780.pdf

Avatar of blueemu
DeirdreSkye wrote:

     It's the Reti...

Barcza System, in fact, but yes.

Avatar of kindaspongey

As far as I know, nobody is in charge of chess opening terminology and there is likely to be some variety from one source to another. As a practical matter, I do not remember seeiing any recent book (in English) with a Barcza System title, and I do not remember seeing much overlap between the recent King's Indian Attack books (in English) and the recent Reti books (in English).

Avatar of ThrillerFan
Yigor wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

     It's the Reti and it's good but not recommended for your level.Before you learn how to surrender the center and counterattack later you must learn the baisc principles first and how to occupy and dominate the centre.

 

It's not only Réti but, actually, KIA

 

In fact, you can't say it's either yet and can easily transpose to either one.

 

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.O-O O-O 5.d3 d5 6.Nbd2 c5 7.e4 and you have a King's Indian Attack

 

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 d5 3.Bg2 e6 4.O-O Be7 5.c4 O-O 6.b3 and you have a line of the Reti (1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 Be7 5.O-O O-O 6.b3 - also referred to by some as the English - Neo-Catalan Declined, but it's referred to by most as the Reti)

 

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.O-O O-O 5.d4 and now if White does not play c4, you have what is known as the "Kingside Fianchetto" while if White does follow up with c4, you have a Fianchetto King's Indian if Black moves his d-pawn to d6 while you have a Fianchetto Grunfeld if Black moves his d-pawn to d5.

 

There inlies the other problem with beginners playing such systems is the fact that most beginner don't understand all the transpositional possibilities, and therefore needs to understand half a dozen openings, not 1 like they think.  In many ways, it's worse than 1.e4 as with 1.e4, you really only need to know 4 openings.  The rest of them you will face but it is much more rare that if you understand opening concepts, that should get you bye.  Those 4 you need to know are 1...e5, 1...c5, 1...e6, and 1...c6.

Avatar of kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:

... In Encyclopedia of Chess Openings KIA is treated as a sideline of Reti.

ECO is considered the most valid opening refference since ...

Can you identify a specific page in ECO where terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" are used? How long has it been since the last ECO volume was published?

Avatar of kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

... In Encyclopedia of Chess Openings KIA is treated as a sideline of Reti.

ECO is considered the most valid opening refference since ...

Can you identify a specific page in ECO where terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" are used? How long has it been since the last ECO volume was published?

      It doesn't matter when the last ECO volume was published.The lines are outdated but the classification of openings is not.It is still used by all modern databases , books and sites.

      You can find Reti and all lines with d3 and e4 in Volume A and sections A07 and A08.

Specifically, A07 is mentioned as Reti opening King's Indian attack(Barcza sytem) and A08 as Reti opening King's Indian attack.

I am sorry, but I missed the place where you identified a specific ECO page where the terms, "King's Indian Attack" or "Reti", appear. Do you currently maintain that ECO "is" considered the most valid opening reference?

Avatar of GWTR
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

... In Encyclopedia of Chess Openings KIA is treated as a sideline of Reti.

ECO is considered the most valid opening refference since ...

Can you identify a specific page in ECO where terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" are used? How long has it been since the last ECO volume was published?

      It doesn't matter when the last ECO volume was published.The lines are outdated but the classification of openings is not.It is still used by all modern databases , books and sites.

      You can find Reti and all lines with d3 and e4 in Volume A and sections A07 and A08.

Specifically, A07 is mentioned as Reti opening King's Indian attack(Barcza sytem) and A08 as Reti opening King's Indian attack.

I am sorry, but I missed the place where you identified a specific ECO page where the terms, "King's Indian Attack" or "Reti", appear. Do you currently maintain that ECO "is" considered the most valid opening reference?

I want to remind both of you that you are adults

Avatar of GWTR
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

... In Encyclopedia of Chess Openings KIA is treated as a sideline of Reti.

ECO is considered the most valid opening refference since ...

Can you identify a specific page in ECO where terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" are used? How long has it been since the last ECO volume was published?

      It doesn't matter when the last ECO volume was published.The lines are outdated but the classification of openings is not.It is still used by all modern databases , books and sites.

      You can find Reti and all lines with d3 and e4 in Volume A and sections A07 and A08.

Specifically, A07 is mentioned as Reti opening King's Indian attack(Barcza sytem) and A08 as Reti opening King's Indian attack.

I am sorry, but I missed the place where you identified a specific ECO page where the terms, "King's Indian Attack" or "Reti", appear. Do you currently maintain that ECO "is" considered the most valid opening reference?

  You missed it because you have never studied chess(as it is well known).

   You can find the names in these  links , all mention the ECO codes and the corresponding openings.

http://www.bookuppro.com/ecopgn/a.html

http://www3.diism.unisi.it/~addabbo/ECO_aperture_scacchi.html

https://www.365chess.com/eco/A04-A09_Reti_opening

http://www.chessgames.com/chessecohelp.html

http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/eco-opening-codes-list-variation-names#RTFToC87

 

Only the last link would be enough(Exeter chess club) for any slightly reasonable person(don't worry , I don't mean you).

       As you can see it's not me that considers ECO the most valid opening refference , it's 99% of those that have studied chess seriously more than half an hour(you must try it one day , who knows , you might even like it).

    I know a more stupid question will follow.If I don't answer it will probably be because I am laughing. 

I like your spunk!

Avatar of MickinMD

I thought the thread was about whether or not the opening is good for kingman626, not what it's name is!

I agree that most players - even those of us with 1700+ ratings, are better off playing openings that fight for center control, develop pieces, and threaten opponents.

I'm not talking all-out attacks like King's Gambit of Scandinavian Defense: even the "fortress defense" of the Caro-Kann with 1 e4 c6 is setting up to play ...d5 to challenge the center, to get it's "Bad" Queen's Bishop outside the Pawn Chain to f5 or g4 so it can threaten, and to eventually play ...c5 and often ...Qb6 to hit White's center at it's base and usually attack Q-side.

Avatar of kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

As far as I know, nobody is in charge of chess opening terminology and there is likely to be some variety from one source to another. As a practical matter, I do not remember seeiing any recent book (in English) with a Barcza System title, and I do not remember seeing much overlap between the recent King's Indian Attack books (in English) and the recent Reti books (in English).

... In Encyclopedia of Chess Openings KIA is treated as a sideline of Reti. ...

Can you identify a specific page in ECO where terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" are used? ...

...   You can find the names in these  links , all mention the ECO codes and the corresponding openings.

http://www.bookuppro.com/ecopgn/a.html

http://www3.diism.unisi.it/~addabbo/ECO_aperture_scacchi.html

https://www.365chess.com/eco/A04-A09_Reti_opening

http://www.chessgames.com/chessecohelp.html

http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/eco-opening-codes-list-variation-names#RTFToC87

Only the last link would be enough(Exeter chess club) for any slightly reasonable person ...

Can you identify a single specific sentence in any of these sources where it is stated that terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" appear in ECO? Do you have an estimate of the number of days that will go by without you saying whether or not you know of a specific ECO page where terms like "King's Indian Attack" and "Reti" appear?

"... The only text is in the System of Signs index at the beginning of the book. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2009)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627022143/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen116.pdf

Avatar of kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

... ECO is considered the most valid opening refference since it was written  not by one , but by a team of top GMs and theoreticians ...

... How long has it been since the last ECO volume was published?

...      It doesn't matter when the last ECO volume was published.The lines are outdated but the classification of openings is not. ...

... Do you currently maintain that ECO "is" considered the most valid opening reference?

...

http://www.bookuppro.com/ecopgn/a.html

http://www3.diism.unisi.it/~addabbo/ECO_aperture_scacchi.html

https://www.365chess.com/eco/A04-A09_Reti_opening

http://www.chessgames.com/chessecohelp.html

http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/eco-opening-codes-list-variation-names#RTFToC87

...      As you can see it's not me that considers ECO the most valid opening refference , it's 99% of those that have studied chess seriously more than half an hour ...

The Exeter page is dated 2010. Can you identify a specific authoritative declaration (with a recent date) that ECO (with its "outdated" lines) "is" considered the most valid opening reference?

"... It is nevertheless a sign of decline that not even one grandmaster has been part of the creative process to compile [ECO Vol. E, 4th edition]. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2009)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627022143/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen116.pdf

"... My main criticism of the regular volumes of the individual volumes of the 'real' encyclopaedia has for many years been the lack of individual and original input by the anonymous survey writers. ... I find it much more acceptable that a volume such as this [Small ECO] doesn't have much if any original input and limits itself to game references and key analysis by others. When it comes to key games, they get it mostly right, but in regards to the analysis they almost exclusively stick to what has previously been published in the Chess Informants or other products published by Sahovski Informator. ... This leaves the reader open to all sorts of inaccurate assessments and an incomplete overview of the current state of a given line. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2011)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627063241/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen145.pdf