Kings gambit - Chess Forums

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#1

Whenever I play against king gambit players, I lose terribly. How can I play against the kings gambit? Any help would be appreciated.

Uhohspaghettio1

Feb 22, 2024

0

#2

pfrend wrote:

You can go ahead and accept the gambit (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4). After White develops his king's knight (3.Nf3), you have a few interesting moves to choose from:

3...Nf6, developing with tempo on the pawn;
3...d5, asking the pawn if it wants to trade on the d5 square;
3...Be7, developing with the idea of Bh4+ if White ever moves the d-pawn to attack f4; and
3...g5, guarding f4 preemptively, preparing a possible Bg7 and maybe even an eventual g4 to hit the knight.

As you can see, the game can proceed in many different ways. Just play whichever continuation you're most comfortable with and try not to blunder anything.

Awesome pfrend. Nice to see you're back.

And then Na6 to try to gain space on the queenside right?

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#3

pfrend wrote:

You can go ahead and accept the gambit (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4). After White develops his king's knight (3.Nf3), you have a few interesting moves to choose from:

3...Nf6, developing with tempo on the pawn;
3...d5, asking the pawn if it wants to trade on the d5 square;
3...Be7, developing with the idea of Bh4+ if White ever moves the d-pawn to attack f4; and
3...g5, guarding f4 preemptively, preparing a possible Bg7 and maybe even an eventual g4 to hit the knight.

As you can see, the game can proceed in many different ways. Just play whichever continuation you're most comfortable with and try not to blunder anything.

thank you, I mostly play the 3...g5 line, however my opponents are always playing strange gambit lines that I do not know how to refute. For example, facing g5, my opponents will usually play Bc4. I then play 4...g4 and they CASTLE. I sometimes take and sometimes not, however, one thing is clear: from there, the game spirals down into a rabbit hole of overwhelming kingside pressure from my opponent. How should I generally combat a situation like that?

This is the most common position I face playing black against a king's gambit player, by the way. It is an extremely troublesome situation for me, and the advantage the engine gives me always feels fake. I think I lose 90% of my games against king's gambit players, please help

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#4

Any other safer and more solid lines on the second/third move would also be greatly appreciated.

It would also be helpful if there is a game plan/pattern for black against the king's gambit.

Alchessblitz

Feb 22, 2024

0

#5

1) e4 e5 3) f4 Bc5 then we'll often get a position that we can get in Vienna Game or Bishop's Opening :

a : King's Gambit

b : Vienna Game

c : Bishop's Opening

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#6

The transposition from the king's gambit line into vienna game doesn't look particularly safe... tell me I'm wrong, but aren't you just hanging a pawn on move 3?

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#7

Oh wait that's actually genius! The queen can swoop in and destroy the kingside, that actually seems like a brilliant line to use

Alchessblitz

Feb 22, 2024

0

#8

The transposition from the king's gambit line into vienna game doesn't look particularly safe... tell me I'm wrong, but aren't you just hanging a pawn on move 3?

a : First of all there are lots of weird (example 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nc3 Qh4+ 4.Ke2) and dangerous variations (example 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.o-o gxf3 6.Qxf3) in the King's Gambit after 1) e4 e5 2) f4 exf4 which means that whatever happens imo 2)...Bc5 is the best and all the more so since Black doesn't need to study it too much.

b : When we don't know about technical things (tactics, calculates) where we suspect it must be bad just we're going to look for the answers by playing in test mode against a strong bot (because like this we're thinking about the position then when the bot will refute or find strong moves we will remember easily) for example 1) e4 e5 2) f4 Bc5 3) fxe5 Qh4+ 4) g3 Qxe4+ 0-1

Jenglish007

Feb 22, 2024

0

#9

Play the Miles Defense (1. e4 e5 2. f4 Nc6 3. Nf3 f5).

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#10

pfrend wrote:

asherahgguh wrote:

pfrend wrote:

thank you, I mostly play the 3...g5 line, however my opponents are always playing strange gambit lines that I do not know how to refute. For example, facing g5, my opponents will usually play Bc4. I then play 4...g4 and they CASTLE. I sometimes take and sometimes not, however, one thing is clear: from there, the game spirals down into a rabbit hole of overwhelming kingside pressure from my opponent. How should I generally combat a situation like that?

You're welcome. Are you referring to this position:
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3

You may be tempted to check right away (6...Bc5+) but doing so gives White the opportunity to tuck his king away where it'll be nice and safe (7.Kh1). Instead, let White's king stay exposed on the dark squares (a7-g1 diagonal). If White wants to put his king on a safer square, don't help him out but rather let him spend a move doing that on his own time.

You can try 6...Qf6, freeing up the d8 square for the king in case it's needed later, also adding a guard to the f4 pawn, and if White makes the mistake of taking that pawn (7.Qxf4) you'll win his bishop (7...Qd4+ and let's say 8.Kh1 or 8.Qf2 then 8...Qxc4) unless he blocks with the rook (8.Rf2), in which case bring your bishop out to make a battery against f2 (8...Bc5). White will almost surely grab the pawn with check (9.Qxf7+) and your only move is 9...Kd8. Notice had you not already brought your dark square bishop out, let's say you played a move like 8...Nc6 instead, White would've won with 9.Qxf7+ Kd8 10.Qxf8#.

In the position after 8...Bc5 9.Qxf7+ Kd8, no matter what White does, you can trade everything on f2 (10...Qxf2+ 11.Qxf2 Bxf2+ 12.Kxf2) and ask White how he plans on winning having two extra pawns but being down a whole rook.

Thank you! All this time, whenever I reach this position (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3), which is quite common in my games, I don't quite know how to refute this line. This info is very helpful, once again thank you!

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#11

Jenglish007 wrote:

Play the Miles Defense (1. e4 e5 2. f4 Nc6 3. Nf3 f5).

I might dabble a little into the Miles Defense, however I am currently investing myself in the exf4 lines. It seems a little edgy and complicated, so I'll save it for the books. Despite that, this seems very good to know, as this defense has an overwhelmingly high win rate for black.

Thank you!

AhmedAryan

Feb 22, 2024

0

#12

asherahgguh wrote:

pfrend wrote:

You can go ahead and accept the gambit (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4). After White develops his king's knight (3.Nf3), you have a few interesting moves to choose from:

3...Nf6, developing with tempo on the pawn;
3...d5, asking the pawn if it wants to trade on the d5 square;
3...Be7, developing with the idea of Bh4+ if White ever moves the d-pawn to attack f4; and
3...g5, guarding f4 preemptively, preparing a possible Bg7 and maybe even an eventual g4 to hit the knight.

As you can see, the game can proceed in many different ways. Just play whichever continuation you're most comfortable with and try not to blunder anything.

thank you, I mostly play the 3...g5 line, however my opponents are always playing strange gambit lines that I do not know how to refute. For example, facing g5, my opponents will usually play Bc4. I then play 4...g4 and they CASTLE. I sometimes take and sometimes not, however, one thing is clear: from there, the game spirals down into a rabbit hole of overwhelming kingside pressure from my opponent. How should I generally combat a situation like that?

This is the most common position I face playing black against a king's gambit player, by the way. It is an extremely troublesome situation for me, and the advantage the engine gives me always feels fake. I think I lose 90% of my games against king's gambit players, please help

muzio gambit
best to accept it, not because it's good to accept it, but because it's bad to refute it

the line according to lichess cloud is -1.9 and according to chess.com a -1.08 on depth 27 stockfish 16 (elo≈3430).

the main line of the muzio gambit is around -3 (lichess). the reason the muzio gambit is said to be winning is for some very easy to fall for traps. (ones that instantly can end your game)

just analyzing against the muzio gambit lines is all i can suggest to avoid them, but there's youtube of course.

the muzio gambit pressure is large though, so it's reasonable to prefer a different line. i can agree, prompting the muzio gambit and accepting is a bold move for sure.

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#13

AhmedAryan wrote:

muzio gambit
best to accept it, not because it's good to accept it, but because it's bad to refute it

the line according to lichess cloud is -1.9 and according to chess.com a -1.08 on depth 27 stockfish 16 (elo≈3430).

the main line of the muzio gambit is around -3 (lichess). the reason the muzio gambit is said to be winning is for some very easy to fall for traps.

just analyzing against the muzio gambit lines is all i can suggest to avoid them, but there's youtube of course.

the muzio gambit pressure is large though, so it's reasonable to prefer a different line. i can agree, prompting the muzio gambit and accepting is a bold move for sure.

i mean, the engine can be kind of BS in openings... It made the King's indian look solved and hard refuted and later on in the lines after perfect play it claims that the position is equal. Of course, the muzio gambit occurs in the late opening stage so I would side with the engine on this one.

AhmedAryan

Feb 22, 2024

0

#14

asherahgguh wrote:

AhmedAryan wrote:

muzio gambit
best to accept it, not because it's good to accept it, but because it's bad to refute it

the line according to lichess cloud is -1.9 and according to chess.com a -1.08 on depth 27 stockfish 16 (elo≈3430).

the main line of the muzio gambit is around -3 (lichess). the reason the muzio gambit is said to be winning is for some very easy to fall for traps.

just analyzing against the muzio gambit lines is all i can suggest to avoid them, but there's youtube of course.

the muzio gambit pressure is large though, so it's reasonable to prefer a different line. i can agree, prompting the muzio gambit and accepting is a bold move for sure.

i mean, the engine can be kind of BS in openings... It made the King's indian look solved and hard refuted and later on in the lines after perfect play it claims that the position is equal. Of course, the muzio gambit occurs in the late opening stage so I would side with the engine on this one.

true
i havent analyzed the muzio gambit in long, but from what i can remember (if white plays correctly) the position balances out a bit more, a more -0.6-7 (according to chess.com, lower depth ~20)

asherahgguh

Feb 22, 2024

0

#15

at the end of the day, you gotta play chess...

tygxc

Feb 22, 2024

0

#16

Strongest is the Fischer Defense: 1 e4 e5 2 f4? exf4 3 Nf3 d6.

tlay80

Feb 23, 2024

0

#17

asherahgguh wrote:

pfrend wrote:

asherahgguh wrote:

pfrend wrote:

thank you, I mostly play the 3...g5 line, however my opponents are always playing strange gambit lines that I do not know how to refute. For example, facing g5, my opponents will usually play Bc4. I then play 4...g4 and they CASTLE. I sometimes take and sometimes not, however, one thing is clear: from there, the game spirals down into a rabbit hole of overwhelming kingside pressure from my opponent. How should I generally combat a situation like that?

You're welcome. Are you referring to this position:
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3

You may be tempted to check right away (6...Bc5+) but doing so gives White the opportunity to tuck his king away where it'll be nice and safe (7.Kh1). Instead, let White's king stay exposed on the dark squares (a7-g1 diagonal). If White wants to put his king on a safer square, don't help him out but rather let him spend a move doing that on his own time.

You can try 6...Qf6, freeing up the d8 square for the king in case it's needed later, also adding a guard to the f4 pawn, and if White makes the mistake of taking that pawn (7.Qxf4) you'll win his bishop (7...Qd4+ and let's say 8.Kh1 or 8.Qf2 then 8...Qxc4) unless he blocks with the rook (8.Rf2), in which case bring your bishop out to make a battery against f2 (8...Bc5). White will almost surely grab the pawn with check (9.Qxf7+) and your only move is 9...Kd8. Notice had you not already brought your dark square bishop out, let's say you played a move like 8...Nc6 instead, White would've won with 9.Qxf7+ Kd8 10.Qxf8#.

In the position after 8...Bc5 9.Qxf7+ Kd8, no matter what White does, you can trade everything on f2 (10...Qxf2+ 11.Qxf2 Bxf2+ 12.Kxf2) and ask White how he plans on winning having two extra pawns but being down a whole rook.

Thank you! All this time, whenever I reach this position (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3), which is quite common in my games, I don't quite know how to refute this line. This info is very helpful, once again thank you!

This is called the Muzio Gambit, and it's very dangerous.

You can either study the bejesus out of it, or, more practically, you can stop playing 4 ... g4. Instead, try 4 ... Bg7, which is a good developing move that causes you a lot fewer headaches while still retaining the extra pawn.

Perhaps still easier is to give up on the idea of retaining the pawn and just try to equalize with 2. … d5 (or 3 … d5, but playing it on move 2 cuts out the Bishop’s Gambit altogether). White isn’t without possibilities, but this lowers the temperature of the game considerably. After 3. exd5, you take on f4. (3. fxe5 loses quickly to Qh4+). Then you play Nf6 and recapture on d5 with the knight, not the queen. Bishops typically go to d6 (defending f4) and e6 and Black should be fine.