Kings Gambit, Muzio Gambit

I don't think the double Muzio is sound. What do you do against 9... Qf5?

http://www.millican.org/chess/muzio.pdf

Indeed. So much! Where does one begin!

@ SimonSeirup on the topic of ‘his’ suggestion 6…Qh4.

One plays 7.g3 and the Queen has to move again.

@oinquarki on his statement: The Muzio Gambit is very strong and gives white a slight advantage, the reason modern day masters don't play it is because black is scared of the muzio and won't play g4!

Why on earth would one play 4…g4?? When there are such alternatives as The Philidor Gambit with 4.Bc4 Bg7! 5.h4 h6 6.d4 d6 and the Hanstein gambit 4.Bc4 d6 5.d4 h6 6.0-0 Bg7. It has got nothing to do with fear and everything to do with practicality and actually wanting to try and win the game.

@Rigamagician on Raymond Keene v Helmut Pfleger Montilla 1974

This is often an often reproduced game and the final position has also been reproduced a number of times. The problem is the final repetition of queen moves does appear not only not to be forced, it may not be the best for Black. After 13.Qe2 Qe6 14.Qf2 Both  Chigorin and Znosko-Borovsky held that 14…Qg6! 15.Bxf4 Bxf4 is clearly better for Black. Hans Smout in Myers Opening Bulletin went one step further and suggested that 14.Nxe7 was better siting 14…Qxe7 15.Bc3! Rg8 16.Qh5! Qg5 17.Rf2 Qxh5! [The alternative 17...Ne7 presents white with an attack 18.Qxf7 Rf8 19.Qxh7 d5 20.Bb4 Re8 21.Rfe2 Bf8 22.Bxd5 Znosko-Borovsky ] 18.Bf6+ and draw. This analysis by Hans Smout is also often reproduced as well, I have even seen it reproduced by noted chess player Tim Harding of Ireland. The problem is that it has one flaw, 17…Qxh5 is not forced and Black has much better: 17. Rf2 Rf8! The game L. Schuler – F. Meiben 1999 continued 18.Qe2 d6 19.Bxf7 Ne5 20.Bd5 c6 21.Be4 Kc7

And finally

@ tmkroll What do you do against Steinitz’s 9…Qf5

(1) Investigate 10.Bxf4 Nf6 11.Qe2! As suggested by Roo of America.

(2) Sac the bishop a different way

Mr, Sarfati is a former New Zealand champion.

I guess there are practical chances in both lines, but both look very fishy. In the game Black is developing very badly and mostly playing in his own way. Maybe it's hard even for a strong player to find better moves over the board in such a wild position but neither of the suggested lines look close to sound for White. I may come back with more on this when I have the time.

Yes!

nakamura won with this

I think so. He get a brutal line of attack against the king and when he sacrifices his bishop on f7 the king is right on the battlefield.

I have what files I could get off the old Tomas Stock site on the Muzio before it disappeared (although I do beleive some of it is still available through archive.org). The thing that gets me though, just what is the fascination? I just can not see why people spend so much on a gambit that can be avoided and it can be avoided with a fair amount of advantage for the player of the black peices to boot. All this wondering if the Muzio is playable is rather moot considering the advatange that 4...Bg7 and 4...d6 offers..

It looks like after 10.Bxf4 Nf6 11.Qe2 in the double Muzio Black can begin to give back material ... 11... Qg4 12. Qxg4 (what else?) Nxg4 13. Be5+ Kg8 14. Bxh8 Bh6 and Black is close to winning. Whenever White sacs that much material it should be fairly easy to thwart the attack with a good counter-sacrifice. This line is coming to me from Houdini after only a few minutes. (I spent last night letting it look deeply at the Nc3 line.) Black doesn't even have to be this clever, though. Just about every Queen retreat and also Bg7 simply defending seem good enough. If a piece falls, it's not the end of the world as long as Black can untangle.

Obviously it's an engine and in positions with this kind of material imbalance it's not going to understand them perfectly, but I have a hard time believing it's so wrong these options could be good for White. The numbers it's spitting back in the Nc3 are all 2s and 3s in Black's favor. Black doesn't even have to take the Bishop, 7. Nc3 Bc5+ seems good for at least an edge.

The Muzio is more fun to play than the safer options and much more interesting. It's clearly not the safest route to an advantage for Black, but the fascination seems obvious to me. How often do you see such an early piece sacrifice result in a good, even, and playable position?

Stockfish says that this gambit is basically equal and is the best move in the position. Stockfish really doesn't like the kings gambit though but fyi its -0.4 and slightly better for black.

I made line 6. d4 in muzio gambit and think its very good for intermediate players