Kings Indian Defence and why anyone plays it?

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ScottTheQA

Im a huge user of the Kings Indian Defence, but I find Im always fighting an uphill battle when using it. So today I went to chessopenings.com and looked at the KID and was startled to learn that black has a 25% win rate with this opening, white with 36% and draws at 38%. 

My question is: Why would anyone ever play an opening with such a ridiculously low rate of success? 

KetoOn1963

It might be me but, I cant find any games here where you played the KID?

ScottTheQA

The last game I played followed a line of the KID 

Maybe you're thinking of a different opening?

KetoOn1963

This game is a Pirc:

https://www.chess.com/live/game/4952885288?username=scotttheqa

This game is a Pirc:

https://www.chess.com/live/game/4952790459?username=scotttheqa

 

ScottTheQA

Ahhh I see, yes that would be considered a pirc defence but the only real difference between the pirc and the KID is the placement of whites first pawn as I understand it. Besides that, the goal of the two defenses is very similar: fianchetto bishop and form a strong king side defense allowing white to take the center and counter attack when whites position becomes unstable

ScottTheQA

As a note, i very rarely use this account as it was my first account i made when i began playing chess. The vast majority of my games are played on lichess and there I have about a 1500 rating which I'm guessing is around 1100 on chess.com, so my games on this account might not be the same ones I mention in this post

KetoOn1963

A few things wrong with your last post:

1. 2 different openings.  2 different pawn structures, with 2 different game plans.

2. From the looks of the games.  You're blindly playing moves that you have memorized, without understanding the "why" behind the moves.  Just memorizing moves is not how you learn openings.

3. You are missing simple tactics, and hanging material.  No amount of opening study is going to correct that.

 

ScottTheQA

I never said I was playing it right? I'm looking at legitimate data compiled from 4000 professional games from 1901-2020 and the KID has a 25% win rate lol

This account is my account I play on my phone/at work so theres a pretty fair amount of simple blunders

KetoOn1963
ScottTheQA wrote:

I never said I was playing it right? I'm looking at legitimate data compiled from 4000 professional games from 1901-2020 and the KID has a 25% win rate lol

This account is my account I play on my phone/at work so theres a pretty fair amount of simple blunders

You're using one database, and not even a very good one to draw a conclusion.  I can get completely different percentages on 365chess.com which i did.  The only site i really give any credence to is chessbase.com and they give different percentages also, and that all depends on what move was made.

ScottTheQA

Okay would you like to contribute to the thread and share the percentages that you found

KetoOn1963
ScottTheQA wrote:

Okay would you like to contribute to the thread and share the percentages that you found

Starting from what move?

What line?

darkunorthodox88

people REALLY need to learn how to use databases

KetoOn1963
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

people REALLY need to learn how to use databases

Gotta give ya another thumbup.png

ScottTheQA

Wow I cannot believe a NM replied to my thread and did not even answer my question 

 

Is this what the chess community is like lol

ThrillerFan
ScottTheQA wrote:

I never said I was playing it right? I'm looking at legitimate data compiled from 4000 professional games from 1901-2020 and the KID has a 25% win rate lol

This account is my account I play on my phone/at work so theres a pretty fair amount of simple blunders

 

Actually, you are reading it all wrong!  You do not base the validity of an opening on percent of wins.  It is percent of points scored.  You calculate that by adding the percentage of wins for the side you are calculating, and adding half the draw percentage to that.  So if an opening has 36% wins for White, 38% draws, and 25% wins for Black, first off, this does not add to 100.  You must have rounding errors.  Let's say, hypothetically, that White scores 36.3%, 38.4% are draws, and 25.3% are wins for Black.  Only now does what you have total 100%.

To determine Black's score, you take his win percentage and add half the draw percentage, or 25.3 + (0.5 × 38.4) = 25.3 + 19.2 = 44.5 Percent.  This means a 55.5 Percent score for White, which is indeed 36.3 + 19.2.

 

Draws count, not just wins!  You get half a point for a draw.  If you score 2 wins as Black, 3 losses, and 15 draws, in 20 games.  You did not score 10%.  White did not score 15%.  You scored 47.5% and White scored 52.5%

 

2 wins, 3 losses, and 15 draws is a FAR BETTER score than 6 wins and 14 losses (30% - FAR WORSE despite triple the number of wins!)

KetoOn1963
ScottTheQA wrote:

Wow I cannot believe a NM replied to my thread and did not even answer my question 

 

Is this what the chess community is like lol

Scott...He did answer your question.

darkunorthodox88

opens up database*

wow, im playing 1.na3 from now on! 15% higher win rate than 1.e4 and d4!

ThrillerFan
ScottTheQA wrote:

Wow I cannot believe a NM replied to my thread and did not even answer my question 

 

Is this what the chess community is like lol

Look at the post I put before this one.  People do not answer because your logic is utter nonsense.  He is right!  If your argument is that Black scores 25 percent, you do not know how to read a database, and that is why people play it!  Because you do not understand at all what you are arguing and you argument is completely invalid!

ScottTheQA

I like how thrillerfan answered my question but the floored NM didnt 

 

Thanks a ton man that's actually super interesting happy.png 

KetoOn1963
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

opens up database*

wow, im playing 1.na3 from now on! 15% higher win rate than 1.e4 and d4!

Then im playing 1...g6.  That has a 100% rate for black!  Take that Mr. NM!