Kings Indian Defence and why anyone plays it?

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Machariel
ScottTheQA wrote:

I think we got a bit off track lol <snip>

I tend to avoid drama as well. To get back to your question;

Your complaint about uphill struggles relates to missing elementary technique. That's why many players advice not to begin with openings until you're 1600/1700 player. Here's an example why it's an "up hill struggle" for you:

On move 6, you didn't notice the typical little positional combo. Up to move 6 it was one of your games.

This little combination is what you should remember (standard maneuver!), not the endless openings. You also need to learn when to break with moves like ...c5 and learn when a pin makes sense. These matters have nothing to do with learning specific openings, but stand on their own.

So instead you pinned the Knight on f3 with 6...Bg4 and after a trade you should have noticed that said pinned Knight wasn't doing anything crucial! So you traded your Bishop against it without having built up pressure against his pawn on d4.

Missing basics like these would make every opening out there a struggle for you. It's normal with your rating. Focus on other stuff. This is the only link you need right now on chess.com:

https://www.chess.com/article/view/study-plan-directory

ThrillerFan
Anonymous_Devil wrote:

Ok guys , sorry for posting off topic . But please report this guy @IndiansArelosers6

 

Report him or her for what?  I have not read all 100 or so posts, but I do not see that user in the last 30 posts of the thread.

 

If all you are complaining about is his user name and he never posted anything inappropriate on this thread, GET LOST, this is not a thread to recruit people to report user games.  This is a thread on the 44.5% scoring Kings Indian Defense.

sndeww
Anonymous_Devil wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
Anonymous_Devil wrote:

Ok guys , sorry for posting off topic . But please report this guy @IndiansArelosers6

 

Report him or her for what?  I have not read all 100 or so posts, but I do not see that user in the last 30 posts of the thread.

 

If all you are complaining about is his user name and he never posted anything inappropriate on this thread, GET LOST, this is not a thread to recruit people to report user games.  This is a thread on the 44.5% scoring Kings Indian Defense.

I never mentioned that he posted something inappropriate . Those who are on following this thread and who might get triggered by his username (preferably from India) would have found my note useful . If you aren't interested just ignore . 

the guy already lost. he was closed by chesscom lol

Lion_kingkiller

And you are a genuine indian, of course...

SupernovaUK

so how do you use a database then? Enlighten us

Lion_kingkiller

Any major Database will tell you... the KID scores not very good.

Pulpofeira

The database will tell you how the KID scores generally, but what if it is more suitable for certain players, and less for others? For example, Bagirov's stats with the Alekhine and Nimzo-Larsen are pretty good. The KID is sound and can be a better choice for certain players than other openings.

SupernovaUK
Pulpofeira wrote:

The database will tell you how the KID scores generally, but what if it is more suitable for certain players, and less for others? For example, Bagirov's stats with the Alekhine and Nimzo-Larsen are pretty good. The KID is sound and can be a better choice for certain players than other openings.

ok, thanks

KetoOn1963
ThrillerFan wrote:
KetoOn1963 wrote:

Unfortunately, blocking whole sets of IPs doesn't work.  Homes, individuals, and the everyday person like you and me all have dynamic IP's.  Reboot your router, and BAM!  New IP.

 

Well then, maybe signing up for chess.com needs to be more complicated and take longer to register.  To unlock your account, you must show proof of residency, like 555 West Main Street, Munich, Germany.

 

You get yourself banned and the only way you will be able to get another account is by moving because 555 West Main Street, Munich, Germany has now been banned.

 

If you are willing to go through the trouble to move just to reinstate your chess.com account, you go right ahead!

You have no idea how may times i have had this conversation with staff.  And with the exception of one person,  Its always the same answer.  They do not want to drive business away. 

icositetrachoron

The King's Indian Defense is a good reply to 1. d4 and gives black a strong kingside defense, but the win rate for black is very low (27.6% for black vs. 40.8% for white on the chess.com database).

icositetrachoron
LionWillCrush wrote:

And the KID does score rubbish. No debate.

You shouldn't rely on database win rates. A strong player could play a horrible opening and win, which would push the scores for white or black up (surprisingly, the Ware Opening, which starts with 1. a4, has a 44% win rate for white, 36% for a draw, and no data on black wins).

Lion_kingkiller

Agreed. But KID scores consistently poor across various Database. At amateur, online and master level. @thrillerfan is adding draws... but if you wanna do that, the qgd scores around 65% or so. Nearly twenty points better than KID. Still, is one of the best for fun game... but not good score.

ThrillerFan
LionWillCrush wrote:

Agreed. But KID scores consistently poor across various Database. At amateur, online and master level. @thrillerfan is adding draws... but if you wanna do that, the qgd scores around 65% or so. Nearly twenty points better than KID. Still, is one of the best for fun game... but not good score.

 

Once again, you are WRONG!  Actually, the QGD scores WORSE than the KID on the database here at Chess.com.  Using the Master Database:

 

The King's Indian Defense (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7) Scores 43% (43% White wins, 28% draws, 29% Black wins:  29 + (0.5*28) = 29 + 14 = 43 Percent!)

 

The Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6) Scores 40.5% (42% White wins, 35% draws, 23% Black wins:  23 + (0.5*35) = 23 + 17.5 = 40.5 Percent!)

icositetrachoron
LionWillCrush wrote:

Agreed. But KID scores consistently poor across various Database. At amateur, online and master level. @thrillerfan is adding draws... but if you wanna do that, the qgd scores around 65% or so. Nearly twenty points better than KID. Still, is one of the best for fun game... but not good score.

When you judge a opening, you don't just look at the win rates. You have to look at other aspects too (e.g. center control, piece development, king safety, etc.). King's Indian Defense, in my opinion, has very good king safety, develops the pieces nicely, and gets sufficient control of the center.

icositetrachoron

For why some one would play it, I assume it's for the strong kingside defense with the fianchettoed bishop. It is very hard to attack (unless you remove the knight on f6, which in that case you can attack h7).

varelse1

The Kings Indian was very popular opening, with Fischer, Kasparov, and many other fan favorites.

It has fallen out of fashion somewhat, since Kramnik introduced the Bayonette Attack, circa 2000.

But still remains very popular with the mortals.

Remember, if you want opportunities playing the black pieces, you need to give white chances too.

There is no opening where black gets all the initiative, and white can only hope to draw. It doesn't exist.

darkunorthodox88
varelse1 wrote:

The Kings Indian was very popular opening, with Fischer, Kasparov, and many other fan favorites.

It has fallen out of fashion somewhat, since Kramnik introduced the Bayonette Attack, circa 2000.

But still remains very popular with the mortals.

Remember, if you want opportunities playing the black pieces, you need to give white chances too.

There is no opening where black gets all the initiative, and white can only hope to draw. It doesn't exist.

CHIGORIN!

varelse1
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
varelse1 wrote:

The Kings Indian was very popular opening, with Fischer, Kasparov, and many other fan favorites.

It has fallen out of fashion somewhat, since Kramnik introduced the Bayonette Attack, circa 2000.

But still remains very popular with the mortals.

Remember, if you want opportunities playing the black pieces, you need to give white chances too.

There is no opening where black gets all the initiative, and white can only hope to draw. It doesn't exist.

CHIGORIN!

Big fan.

And okay, white usually doesn't get the sort of early attacking chances black does in that opening.

But white does get strong positional play, if he can avoid the landmines.

Lion_kingkiller

@thrillerfan... misleading stats. At master level the qgd and slav exchange are very often used for a mutual draw. But... I am still surprised the qgd scores quite so poorly.

blueemu
ThrillerFan wrote:
LionWillCrush wrote:

Agreed. But KID scores consistently poor across various Database. At amateur, online and master level. @thrillerfan is adding draws... but if you wanna do that, the qgd scores around 65% or so. Nearly twenty points better than KID. Still, is one of the best for fun game... but not good score.

 

Once again, you are WRONG!  Actually, the QGD scores WORSE than the KID on the database here at Chess.com.  Using the Master Database:

 

The King's Indian Defense (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7) Scores 43% (43% White wins, 28% draws, 29% Black wins:  29 + (0.5*28) = 29 + 14 = 43 Percent!)

 

The Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6) Scores 40.5% (42% White wins, 35% draws, 23% Black wins:  23 + (0.5*35) = 23 + 17.5 = 40.5 Percent!)

One point that ought to be mentioned is that different groups of players will use different openings.

When you are playing Black and are "paired up" against a stronger player, you might be more likely to use a conservative opening in an attempt to blunt White's initiative and go for a draw; while if you are "paired down" against a weaker player you might be inclined to use a more double-edged opening in order to unbalance the game and go for a win.

I wonder what a search for "average rating" of White vs Black would reveal about different openings?