Learning The Sicilian

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kelsierSC

Since I started taking chess seriously I have never put any serious preparation into answering 1.e4 as black. I generally play e5 and then just try and get a reasonable position.

I want to add some variety to my opening play and was considering learning the sicilian defence, however my only concern is that I feel the sicilian is quite an advanced opening and is pretty move order dependant. 

If this is incorrect then please let me know, if I am just a 1600-1700 player then is the sicilian just going to hinder my growth. 

Derekjj

I am not a really strong player yet, but as far as I know, studying any opening is better left at the master level.

kelsierSC
chessph wrote:

I am not a really strong player yet, but as far as I know, studying any opening is better left at the master level.

In depth study and memorisation is best left to master level, but learning the basic ideas and principles behind an opening system is, in my opinion, necessary at lower than master level because it gives you various plans and ideas going into the midgame/endgame

Derekjj
kelsierSC wrote:
chessph wrote:

I am not a really strong player yet, but as far as I know, studying any opening is better left at the master level.

In depth study and memorisation is best left to master level, but learning the basic ideas and principles behind an opening system is, in my opinion, necessary at lower than master level because it gives you various plans and ideas going into the midgame/endgame

Yes, you can definately learn something from it. Nothing really wrong with it. But, those at master levels are experts in tactics and strategy and know the ideas behind it and how to get there from the opening.

EliasAStern

i played the caro kann for a long time but picked up the dragon this summer. I think learning the open sicilian from the white side is much much harder because there are so many variations you have to learn. Its not so bad or difficult learning the variations as black since you only have to memorize one. i woud give it a try. the sicilian is definately much sharper and tactical than the caro, so it really lets me play whatever game fits my mood. i should also mention that i dont change openings easily and 1.e4 is the only opening against which i have two responses

molokombo
EliasAStern wrote:

i played the caro kann for a long time but picked up the dragon this summer. I think learning the open sicilian from the white side is much much harder because there are so many variations you have to learn. Its not so bad or difficult learning the variations as black since you only have to memorize one. i woud give it a try. the sicilian is definately much sharper and tactical than the caro, so it really lets me play whatever game fits my mood. i should also mention that i dont change openings easily and 1.e4 is the only opening against which i have two responses

it's not quite so simple as you suggest. you also have to know how to play against the numerous "anti sicilian" lines. the closed, grand prix, alapin, smith morra and the bb5 sicilian.

AdorableMogwai

Playing the Sicilian will definitely not "hinder your growth", why would it? If anything it will improve your chess since it often leads to tactical play. Valeri Lilov featured it in his openings for beginners series here on chess.com, IM Adrew Martin also recommended it in one of his chess DVDs for beginners. You do have to learn all the anti-Sicilians as Molokombo pointed out, as most of the time people won't go into the open Sicilian. In addition to the ones he mentioned there's also the Bowdler Attack and the Wing Gambit. As far as people saying openings have too much theory, I think if you're playing people equal to you that won't matter, because chances are they'll know only as much theory as you do, maybe a little more or a little less. Aren't chess games decided more by tactics and endgame knowledge than the opening anyway?

unterseegoat

Play whatever you want and study whatever you want. Sure maybe studying openings is not as efficient as studying endgames, but if you enjoy it and do it more then what does it matter? 

Studying openings for an hour is only as effective as 6 minutes of endgame study, but if you weren't going to even study endgames for 6 minutes you are 6 minutes better off then you otherwise would have been.

I really like the Kan sicilian. Not many people really know what to do against it at normal levels and there isn't so much theory as the dragon or najdorf. 

AdorableMogwai
doduobird123 wrote:

The Bowlder attack is what people at my chess club play against me  I just go for a Scheveningen setup (I used to play the Scheveningen) and sometimes it can transpose into a Sozin Attack. Well, the Wing gambit isn't really sound, and no one sees it at top level play. The Kan is good too, but white doesn't really have to know much to play against it. In the Dragon, one teeny mistake from white and BOOM, he loses. Same thing in the Najdorf.

I get the Bowlder attack a lot too. I used to go e6 then an immediate d5 push, but I've started playing a Paulsen against it recently with more success.

I also play the Dragon btw. At least when white goes into open Sicilian lines.

I enjoy learning all the anti-Sicilians too. Against the 2.f4 Grand Prix I use the Tal Gambit with much success. Against the 2. Nc3 Grand Prix I use the Accelerated Dragon. Against the Alapin I use the 2...d5 lines with success often winning in the endgame.

For the Smith-Morra I always accept the gambit and usually win, though I must say in post-game analysis of most of those games there was found a tactical opportunity for white that they missed. I'm currently studying the Smith-Morra to play as white against the Sicilian because I believe it's been unfairly written off, there are lots of ways for black to go wrong even when using one of the various defensive systems.

dashkee94

Spassky had the same repetoire as black against e4--e5 and c5, though he used the Scheveningan (at least I can't remember any Spassky game as black with anything other than e5 or Scheve c5).  If you're around 1600 and have had some success in open games, experimenting with the Sicilian is an excellant idea.  Use it sparingly, at first, in OTB play.  Get used to the basic ideas in on-line blitz play, but only if you go to study the games a little after--mainly, to reinforce the proper lines of play by seeing what weak/thoughtless defenses/offenses suffer from in it.  But while still remembering they are blitz games, you can get to understand the main ideas better, so when you play it with any regularity in tournaments, you'll have solid foundation on which to work--the books will tell you what the proper lines are, experience will tell you what to do to improper responses.  But, yeah, I think you have the right idea--good luck with it!

PS--And if you get a good crush in it, be sure to post it here for all of us to see--OK?

Burke

I suggest you play against the sicilian with white as much as possible. You can see the strengths and weaknesses from the other side and you will feel more confident in taking it up. 

Mandy711

The transition from e5 to c5 is not easy. I suggest 2.Nc6 the Pelikan variation in case white plays open Sicilian. Kramnik games would show you how to play the Sicilian Pelikan.

dashkee94

I agree with Burke in that learning to play both sides will only help, but let me propose an idea on how to approach OTB: take a look at the games of the boards around you, see if anyone plays a line you'd like to try.  I play the French as a rule, but if I see someone play a weak line against the Dragon, you better believe I'm a Dragon player against him.  Same thing with the Najdorf, whatever, but if I don't know them--or if I know they play the Sicilian too well--I'm playing La Marseillaise.

Mandy711

The Sicilian Dragon may be too wild and too exciting for the OP. Yes it's the Sveshnikov variation. I forgot how to spell it :) The Sveshnikov is the easiest to play in the open Sicilian.

odisea777

I am at a very low level, but I find the basic courses in Chess Mentor very useful. Also tactics trainer. Don't have a huge amount of study time so I find that sticking to these courses is a pretty good curriculum

odisea777
doduobird123 wrote:
doduobird123 wrote:
ab121705 wrote:

I am at a very low level, but I find the basic courses in Chess Mentor very useful. Also tactics trainer. Don't have a huge amount of study time so I find that sticking to these courses is a pretty good curriculum

Well, if the OP wants to get better at the Sicilian, he shouldn't do the tactics trainer.

Unless the tactics came from the Sicilian.

Here is a tactic from the Sicilian Dragon!

 


Tactices underlie everything, including the Sicilian, and all the openings. 

EdwardEnigma

If you want to play the Sicilian, just be prepared to lose alot at first.  It took about 2 years for me to have the Dragon under my control.. 2 things I enjoy about the Sicilian:

1: Trading pieces almost always favors Black

2: White is usually on the defensive from the beginning because most e4 players HATE playing against it.

 Strong pawn structures can be protected and become very valuable in endgames. I would suggest playing the HAD vs. playing the Dragon.  The development of the regular Dragon is too slow and weak to the Marcoczy Bind as well as the Yugoslav Attack.  HAD offers you some protection against these with some practice.  But on the flip side of that.. the lines are razor sharp.  Pretty much whoever !@#^'s up first loses.

chesshole

don't bother learning the Sicilian, 2.c3 refutes it

AdorableMogwai

Doduobird, here's another opening trap from the Dragon. Have you had this tried against you yet?



AdorableMogwai
chesshole wrote:

don't bother learning the Sicilian, 2.c3 refutes it

Is that why GM Sergei Tiviakov, who specializes in the Alapin and made the Chessbase DVD on it, plays the Sicilian as black in many of his games?