Learning the Traxler - Chess Forums - Page 2

IM pfren

Dec 27, 2017

0

#21

jatait47 έγραψε:

pfren wrote:

4...Bc5?! 5.d4! makes you regret it.

A bold statement indeed

Are you relying on De Zeeuw's articles for that assessment? If so, I should say that he's wrong about quite a few lines there. But then they were from 2002 and engines are a lot stronger now.

No.

I have seen De Zeeuw's analysis, and Stefan Buecker's article, and to a certain extent I used the info posted there.

But my statement that Black stands badly after 5.d4 is due to an in-depth analysis I have made after I had the luck to meet the Traxler in a correspondence game.

NM jatait47

Dec 27, 2017

0

#22

pfren wrote:

No.

I have seen De Zeeuw's analysis, and Stefan Buecker's article, and to a certain extent I used the info posted there.

But my statement that Black stands badly after 5.d4 is due to an in-depth analysis I have made after I had the luck to meet the Traxler in a correspondence game.

Right, I've found Frendzas-Kahl. Hmmmm. I'd thought 9...Rf8 was the best move (rather than 9...h6 etc) and then 13...Nb3+ (rather than Bücker's 13...Nc2+), but checking my old analysis with Houdini now, neither 14 Be3 Bxe3+ 15 Kxe3 Nxa1 16 Nd2 nor 14 Ke2 Nxa1 15 Nf3 is looking particular pleasant for Black. Hmmmm.

NM jatait47

Jul 22, 2018

0

#23

For what it's worth, I've been playing 5 d4 exclusively in online thematics this year and my current score is 5/5, including a win in the 6...Nxd5 line (though Black might have defended better) and three wins against 6...Nxd4. Another opponent tried 6...Bb4+!? 7 c3 Nxd5 8 exd5 Qxd5 9 cxb4 Qxg2 10 Qf3 Qxf3 11 Nxf3 e4!?, has reasonable-ish counterplay for the piece (we're up to move 23), and may yet draw. We'll see.

supware

Aug 30, 2018

0

#24

jatait47 wrote:

for theory the most recent book is Boris Alterman's Gambit Guide: Black Gambits 2, which has 80+ pages on the Traxler:

https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/products/1/146/alterman_gambit_guide_-_black_gambits_2_by_boris_alterman/

Bought the book, excellent recommendation. Thanks!

Alltheusernamestaken

Aug 30, 2018

0

#25

sup_bro wrote:

What's the best way to practice complex openings (specifically the Traxler)? I'd love to get proficient in this line because it's so beautiful and fits my style perfectly, but it requires White to play the Fried Liver which doesn't happen very often at all. Since I'm never expecting to get the opportunity to play it I'm almost always unprepared, and end up out of theory after just 8 to 10 moves. Can anyone recommend some literature on the Traxler, or better yet, some kind of Fried Liver tournament online? Cheers! ^-^

If black doesn't capture the bishop on e2 with the king then white is completely wining

JimmySteele

Apr 18, 2019

0

#26

I'd like to bump this. What are the sharpest, trappiest lines to play as white against the Traxler? Here is a recent game FWIW:

jumpingchesshorse

Apr 18, 2019

0

#27

I set up the position on the analysis board and then play the position against the computer- you can also just ask members in the forums or your own chess friends, I'd be happy to play you any time in the tracker 😃

jumpingchesshorse

Apr 18, 2019

0

#28

traxler, not tracker- darn atocorrect lol

IM pfren

Apr 19, 2019

0

#29

JimmySteele έγραψε:

I'd like to bump this. What are the sharpest, trappiest lines to play as white against the Traxler? Here is a recent game FWIW:

This does not make any sense.

5.0-0? 0-0 and Black is already more than fine.

JimmySteele

Apr 20, 2019

0

#30

pfren wrote:

JimmySteele έγραψε:

I'd like to bump this. What are the sharpest, trappiest lines to play as white against the Traxler? Here is a recent game FWIW:

This does not make any sense.

5.0-0? 0-0 and Black is already more than fine.

Pfren, can you tell me (absent computer analysis) why black is equal after 5. 0-0? What are some good ideas for white?

NM jatait47

Apr 20, 2019

0

#31

JimmySteele wrote:

Pfren, can you tell me (absent computer analysis) why black is equal after 5. 0-0? What are some good ideas for white?

Computer analysis is not required. If you attack f7 (4 Ng5) and then don't take it (allowing 5...0-0), you've just wasted time with the knight, which will soon be driven away by ...h6 as well.

Instead: 5 Bxf7+ makes much more sense, when White has won a pawn with check, forcing Black to move the king. After 5...Ke7 (best) you can retreat the bishop again and look to develop with d2-d3 and Be3.

5 Nxf7 is possible too, but then 5...Bxf2+! follows and the tactics are very complicated. More to the point, Black is probably okay.

I'll save Pfren the trouble of recommending 5 d4!, when the standard continuation 5...d5 6 Bxd5 Nxd4 7 Bxf7+ Ke7 8 Bc4 b5 9 Bd3 is just good for White. Yes, Black does have other options.

NM jatait47

Apr 20, 2019

0

#32

jatait47 wrote:

For what it's worth, I've been playing 5 d4 exclusively in online thematics this year and my current score is 5/5, including a win in the 6...Nxd5 line (though Black might have defended better) and three wins against 6...Nxd4. Another opponent tried 6...Bb4+!? 7 c3 Nxd5 8 exd5 Qxd5 9 cxb4 Qxg2 10 Qf3 Qxf3 11 Nxf3 e4!?, has reasonable-ish counterplay for the piece (we're up to move 23), and may yet draw. We'll see.

He did indeed draw that game, but I've improved in another game with the same line. So my score now with 5 d4 as White is P12 W9 D1 L0 with two unfinished which I expect to win. On the other hand I also have one game as Black which I'm hoping to draw (activity in a pawn down endgame).

IM pfren

Apr 20, 2019

0

#33

JimmySteele έγραψε:

pfren wrote:

JimmySteele έγραψε:

I'd like to bump this. What are the sharpest, trappiest lines to play as white against the Traxler? Here is a recent game FWIW:

This does not make any sense.

5.0-0? 0-0 and Black is already more than fine.

Pfren, can you tell me (absent computer analysis) why black is equal after 5. 0-0? What are some good ideas for white?

Black is not equal- he is slightly better after 5.0-0? 0-0.

Since after an eventual ...h6, the knight has to go back, and Black will have a slight advantage in development.

5.0-0? effectively wastes two moves (Ng5 and then back to f3).

JimmySteele

Apr 22, 2019

0

#34

jatait47 wrote:

JimmySteele wrote:

Pfren, can you tell me (absent computer analysis) why black is equal after 5. 0-0? What are some good ideas for white?

Computer analysis is not required. If you attack f7 (4 Ng5) and then don't take it (allowing 5...0-0), you've just wasted time with the knight, which will soon be driven away by ...h6 as well.

Instead: 5 Bxf7+ makes much more sense, when White has won a pawn with check, forcing Black to move the king. After 5...Ke7 (best) you can retreat the bishop again and look to develop with d2-d3 and Be3.

5 Nxf7 is possible too, but then 5...Bxf2+! follows and the tactics are very complicated. More to the point, Black is probably okay.

I'll save Pfren the trouble of recommending 5 d4!, when the standard continuation 5...d5 6 Bxd5 Nxd4 7 Bxf7+ Ke7 8 Bc4 b5 9 Bd3 is just good for White. Yes, Black does have other options.

Is there any surefire way to get an edge with white if one takes on f7 with the knight? Every time I've ever done it, I've been obliterated with extreme prejudice.

IM pfren

Apr 22, 2019

0

#35

JimmySteele έγραψε:

Is there any surefire way to get an edge with white if one takes on f7 with the knight? Every time I've ever done it, I've been obliterated with extreme prejudice.

5.Nxf7 is unnecessarily complex, and not advantageous to white after 5...Bxf2+. Exhaustive analysis of the positions does exist, and theoretically, the whole line is a draw. It rather deserves a question mark.