If black playes b6 in the Nimzo Indian I would say that he is heading for the Queens Indian. ...And about the fianchetto, I would say that you can play a very poor hypermodern opening focusing on your knights if you really wanted to.
mvh Fredrik
Lesson 4: Responses for black
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I'm not sure if I get how this is helpping with black defence. Isnt this more of opening then counterattacks.
BillyIdle wrote:
Well, here is my comment in general terms. To tip the balance (chess being dynamic and not static) Black oft times MUST scarifice a pawn to keep from being restricted in some openings - to open lines. The Two Knight's Defense would be a case in point. Generally, in the King's Pawn lines Black sacrifices a pawn. Piece sacrifices are to win, not get free. Of course, on the Qeenside we have the Benko Gambit! Dr. Tarrasch said that players afraid to have an isolated pawn should give up the game of chess. Apparently his Tarrasch Defense in the QGD was being criticized. There often comes a time in the game, as we all know, (even the late middle game) where Black has to give up something to get something. A player cannot hang on to every pawn as King Midas hung onto his gold. We just need to be careful of all unsound sacrifices (which is what chess anaysis is all about) Although Paul Morphy loved the pawn sacrifice for development with White, the pawn sacrifice was invented by the Blackside. That is why players on this forum are always talking about gambits and counter gambits, gambits and more counter gambits.
Great post, billyidle!
kosmeg wrote:
you can't understand the idea behind the caro-cann if you don't know the idea behind the french.
I'm afraid I have to differ on this. Caro-Kann is a very simple idea - black continues his development without bothering overmuch about white's moves. [except Panov-Botvinnik, which I automatically play against the Caro-Kann - but that's a different story...]
normajeanyates wrote:
kosmeg wrote:
you can't understand the idea behind the caro-cann if you don't know the idea behind the french. I'm afraid I have to differ on this. Caro-Kann is a very simple idea - black continues his development without bothering overmuch about white's moves. [except Panov-Botvinnik, which I automatically play against the Caro-Kann - but that's a different story...]
No, the idea in Caro-cann is, if white plays e5 to sooner or later play c5, but this is also the idea in french. The BIG difference is that in Caro-Cann you don't have the BAD c8 bishop. That's the idea in Caro-cann and that's why it was created. in the Classical variation you also have to bother about what white plays to see if you gonna castle short or long and see if there are traps. In caro-cann you NEVER lock the bishop on c8, it's against the principals of the opening.
Also you have to make diffcult decisions.
In advance variation.
- Is my knight better on c6 or on d7?
- Should I exchange my bishop on f5 with his bishop on d3?
- Should I play h6, to prevent Bg5 or I shouldn't be bothered I about Bishop g5?
- Should I play c5 now or on next move?
- Should I stop white from trapping my bishop with g4 h4 h5, by playing h6 or h5?
In the Classical variation
- Is it better to castle short here, or should I castle long?
- Should I play Bd6 or Be7?
- Should I put my queen on c7 before I play e6?
Let me give you some example of sharp variaations in Caro cann.
Hansen,
There are more traps in the Nimzo-Indian than most players know about. It is positional but also can be dangerous for either side. They used to play it to crush each other in the 1940's.
Kosmeg wrote: [excepted]
No, the idea in Caro-cann is, if white plays e5 to sooner or later play c5, but this is also the idea in french. The BIG difference is that in Caro-Cann you don't have the BAD c8 bishop. That's the idea in Caro-cann and that's why it was created. in the Classical variation you also have to bother about what white plays to see if you gonna castle short or long and see if there are traps. In caro-cann you NEVER lock the bishop on c8, it's against the principals of the opening.
Also you have to make diffcult decisions...
Kosmeg, I know that! I've read Andew Soltis's 'pawn structure chess' for god's sake! But this is a thread for beginners' opening reperoire - and beginners will lose against you are me whatever!.
What I meant was: the Caro-Kann can be played by beginners with a simple idea in mind. And that simple idea is your paragraph I quoted. [sorry maybe I should have written out that whole thing]. Even MCO starts with exactly your paragraph I quoted [in different words], in the introduction page to the caro-Kann. Then [in the introduction itself] it goes on to 'the more difficult things'.
Can the french be played by beginners with a simple idea in mind? Implementable in any sort of way be beginners? [say against a player only slightly stronger than them.] I am not sure...
OTOH the Nimzo is quite playable by beginners, I think. I recommend that for beginners because you need a sharp tactical eye for the nimzo [nimzoindian i mean, not the nimzowitch defence :] and until you are near master level it is mostly tactics. I think the nimzoindian is the most tactical of the hypermodern defences.
Speaking for myself, I've never played a dull nimzoindian game.
Kosmeg wrote:
Also you have to make diffcult decisions.
In advance variation.
- Is my knight better on c6 or on d7?
- Should I exchange my bishop on f5 with his bishop on d3?
- Should I play h6, to prevent Bg5 or I shouldn't be bothered I about Bishop g5?
- Should I play c5 now or on next move?
- Should I stop white from trapping my bishop with g4 h4 h5, by playing h6 or h5?
In the Classical variation
- Is it better to castle short here, or should I castle long?
- Should I play Bd6 or Be7?
- Should I put my queen on c7 before I play e6?
That is a usefully short checklist, though. Good post, Kosmeg. [I never implied it wasn't a good post!]
Of course playing the caroKann against me black gets Panov-Botvinnik, so I am not sure if the checklist covers all of that... maybe some experience playing QGD and QGA may be useful for the beginning caroKann player, in case white responds Panov-Botvinnik.
In the Panov-Botvinik attack the most moves are theory for me, so I didn't knew what to put on the list, and in the exchange variation the plan is very simple.
thanks normajeanyates
so do you want to play it out or you just wanted to know it.
If you want to play it out, I put in a challenge as you asked - 14-days a move, starting with the Panov-Botvinnik position; that's all I can fit in (I have a computerchess tournament and a bigchess[16x16 chess ] tournament at www.ficgs.com going on, so I'll be slow in the beginning after the common theory is exhausted).
My point is that it is even more difficult for the beginner black if the opp throws in Panov-Botvinnik! And if black plays caro-Kann, white can force the Panov-Botvinnik position.
EDIT: It seems from your response above, and the fact that you didn't respond either 'accept' or 'decline' to the challenge, that your query was satisfied. At present since I have to plan my time meticulously, I can't afford to wake up tomorrow not knowing whether I have an extra game to play or not - so I have withdrawn the challenge.
FHansen,
In my opinon if Black plays the move b6 in the Ninzo Indian it is a hypermodern defense. If the player chooses not to play b6 it is not a hypermodern opening, and conforms to Nimzovitch's book, My System. My System has taught many beginners how to play chess beyond the openings. If you don't fianchetto any bishops can that opening be considered as "hypermodern"? I ask you.