Can you be a rubbish chess player and have a really high IQ?

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Avatar of Optimissed
MaetsNori wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

IQ is a measure of general puzzle solving ability. Chess, essentially, is a specialised puzzle. Therefore ....

Just wondering if anyone would like to attempt to refute this rather conclusive argument?

Chess is a type of puzzle, sure. But chess-specific intelligence doesn't necessarily translate to ability in other forms of puzzles.

If we watch the video of Hikaru trying to solve a 15-puzzle online, for example, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMDGXeRK__E) we don't see a puzzle-solving phenom in all his intellectual glory. Instead, we see a typical person stumbling through a rudimentary puzzle via little more than trial and error - and doing what most people try to do: coming up with our own heuristic method to simplify our understanding.

One would think, if we were to assume that Hikaru's chess skill suggests a tremendous IQ (and if we were to assume that high IQ equates to general puzzle-solving ability), that a basic numerical sliding puzzle should be child's play for him. But it wasn't.

In fact, his attempts highlight an interesting facet in his approach: he tries to find rules and techniques that can be redeployed, like pattern shortcuts, instead of actually thinking ahead and planning out his approach. He clicks and shifts randomly at times, and when that doesn't work, he scraps the method and restarts the puzzle, to try something else.

This suggests that his approach to chess is likely similar - a matter of chunking patterns and re-using techniques for short-term progress and improvements. The bread and butter of blitz and bullet players ...

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Or, TL;DR: Being brilliant at chess doesn't automatically mean one is brilliant at anything else ...

There's sense in that. But the most difficult type of puzzles in chess, at least for me, are the very tactical exchanges that the engines like Norah find so easy. The positional puzzles, where I can fairly easily outthink the engines, are easier since I know what to look for. But the tactical puzzles are those that most closely resemble IQ tests.

There are darts players who can calculate automatically in the context of darts. Based on memory and patterns, I expect. Yes, chess is a specialised puzzle but it's still a series of puzzles, like IQ tests. If I can answer one type of IQ test puzzle quite accurately, I wouldn't be able to score high if I couldn't manage the others, if you see what I mean.

I don't do chess puzzles so I wasn't sure what you meant. Point is, in a game, we form impressions of the types of tactical chances we are likely to encounter. In a puzzle, we haven't built that database in our heads. That may explain his rather stumbling approach to puzzles.

Avatar of MaetsNori

Yes. Though if you watch the video - he eventually discovers his own method for solving the 15-puzzle, and gets better at it. What's notable is his tenacity. Where some players would get bored and move on, Hikaru gets annoyed and more determined.

I think, if anything, this is the secret to his chess skill - that tenacity/obsession, whatever we want to call it. It's probably a big part of what pushed him to climb the chess ladder.

Also, I like to scoff at IQ not because I think IQ is irrelevant - but because I believe that it's not productive to worry about such things.

It's like worrying about your height, for example. Sure, your height likely matters for many things, but fretting about it isn't going to be the best use of your time ...

If you're an intelligent person, awesome. If you're an average Joe, that's fine, too.

Chess is the great equalizer, in a way. We can all find improvement in it, with a little bit of work and guidance along the way ...

Avatar of Optimissed

I used to be like Hikaru. But I'm 74 now and catch myself not completing an analysis as deep as I used to. I liked everything you said there.

Maybe that's the key, then. Memory, learned patterns, puzzle-solving ability. But, above all, tenacity and determination.

Avatar of iadoretheLord

In response to the OP’s question? I certainly hope so!

Avatar of joshforthewin

My personal opinion is, within the top players, there is a correlation. However, a person with dead average IQ can get to 1700 with hard work and determination, however, beyond that, and onto being tilted there has to be a bit of a spark.

Avatar of joshforthewin
joshforthewin wrote:

My personal opinion is, within the top players, there is a correlation. However, a person with dead average IQ can get to 1700 with hard work and determination, however, beyond that, and onto being tilted there has to be a bit of a spark.

And on a separate note, unlike most of the players who have posted, I have actually taken an IQ test, and I was 121 overall IQ and 150 in the Visual Spatial (VSI) section.

Avatar of badger_song

I guess there is a widely held assumption that chess success is correlated with a high IQ , if you have a high chess elo its a proposition you are likely to want to be true. I don't think there is much researching into chess and IQ specifically; or at least any that isn't like the old, discredited, research associating race with IQ etc. The subject of IQ, itself, is an ambiguous topic in its own right. At this point in time, the question of IQ and chess is likely to be one of ..if wishes were horses.

Avatar of Steve-K

Alan Turing was a genius by any stretch of the imagination, and he also used the game as part of his development of computers. However I read that his chess-playing standard was indifferent, though not necessarily rubbish.

Avatar of mpaetz
Optimissed wrote:

So, you think that every IQ test in existence is administered correctly, there are no dodgy ones online etc etc? And that no-one has ever failed a test deliberately or deliberately answered the questions at random. OK, you're welcome to your opinion. You'll have the evidence, I suppose.

I would not be surprised in the slightest should such things occur. What I find impossible to credit is the notion that ANY such occurrence MUST be the result of inexpertly administered or frivolously taken tests.

My "evidence" is witnessing brilliant, high-IQ UC Berkeley mathematicians with lists of respected theorems and publications "as long as your arm" getting "bitten by the chess bug" and struggling mightily for years to maintain a low-average elo rating.

Incidentally, something must have gone awry with your posts here, as I can't seem to find where you have provided the kind of proof buttressing your opinion that you request from others.

Avatar of Edwing224
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Avatar of ChessUnicorn_CN

a little outta topic, but it sounds like everyone are here not to only play chess right, there are loads of experts here...

Avatar of Just_an_average_player136

Of course

Avatar of joshforthewin
badger_song wrote:

if you have a high chess elo its a proposition you are likely to want to be true.

so true lol