London Opening - Help Wanted

Hi All,

I would like some comments on where to take this position. I'm trying to learn the London opening system. I get into this position a bunch playing the computer and am not smart enough to get a decisive advantage.

Thank you,

"Hope Chess" leads to total failure.  You would never get such a trade against me.  I play a double-fianchetto setup against the London System.  You'd never see such a trade from me.

You seem to just be playing "London system" moves regardless of Black's replies... just playing on auto-pilot. If Black makes an opening error, you should exploit it, not just continue to shuffle your pieces into a "London" arrangement.

For example, what's the motive behind 3. c3? Your d-Pawn isn't threatened, and Black has blocked his c-Pawn so you don't need support against c7-c5. Wouldn't 3. Nf3 make more sense?

Or on move 6, why not 6. e4 to kick that Knight on d5?

Interesting comments, im just getting more in to this Opening. Great System but one needs to remain Flexible ...

This is why I NEVER recommend the London System, English Opening, or Kings Indian Attack to anybody under 2000!

Are they "sound"?  Sure!  However, why did Carlsen play the London a few times?  Possibly a novelty he had?  You ask a 1400 player why he plays the London System, and I guarantee you it is either some form of short cut, like I can play the same moves no matter what Black does, or else a coach told them to play it and I guarantee you the reason why is to cut down on studying.

Way too many amateurs use those 3 openings to play the initial moves blindly.  There is no one size fits all.  If you know for a fact that your opponent will play d4,Bf4,e4,Nf3,h3 or c4,g3,Bg2,Nc3 blindly, you can easily get at minimum equality and very quickly a small advantage!

1.d4 g6 2.Bf4?! Bg7 3.e3 d6 4.Nf3 Nc6 (or 4...Nd7) 5.h3 e5! =/+

1.c4 e6 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2? f5! 4.Nc3 Nf6 =

In the latter case, 3.Nc3 is correct - always answer Nc6 with Nc3 is the rule.  Reason is 3...f5 4.Nf3! Nf6 5.d4! e4 6.Nh4 (Not possible with a Bishop on g2 as the Knight will get trapped) and the Knight will harass the Black Kingside until ...g5 is pushed, then Ng2 and h4 is coming and if Black ever takes on h4 or advances, f4 is an outpost for the Knight.  Bishop goes to e2 instead of g2, despite 2.g3.

The fact that he is blindly playing moves is EXACTLY why he has no business playing the London System!  Will stunt his chess growth completely!

Thank you for everyone's comments, I'm grateful for your insights, especially groovychinacat. I don't understand Thrillerfan's comment about having no business. It seems that he expects everyone to know everything about something and not have to go through a learning curve? How in the world does a chess player have no business playing a system they are trying to understand? I would be categorized as a beginner and would not claim otherwise.  I'm not good at predicting moves and so memorizing systems helps me the most, I have read enough to know that that is not how good chess players play.

I appreciated blueemu's question, it's very valid and respectfully asked.  The motive behind c3 is that the computer always wants to attack my bishop on white file and I would prefer to keep for attacking possibilities later, so c3 as I understand it, keeps early attacks away. My reason for not e4 first is i want to get my knights and bishops developed before making pawn attacks.

I also agree making blind moves regardless of what black does isn't very smart, but my computer always makes the same move in the same setup, I cannot get it to do otherwise. So my apologies for being so narrow minded. This position with the rook file open is one I just wanted some advice on how to take advantage of it. It seems I can get a queen+pawn trade for just my knight+rook. That seems like a good deal to me.

What is there not to understand about post 6?

The reason for post 6 is that there are WAY too many players that choose the London, English, or King's Indian Attack because they feel that it would "cut back" on what must be learned, and many of those players then do not actually understand what they are doing.  They are merely acting robotic based on White's pawn structure alone, and not realizing that there are 16 pawns on the board, not 8!  There are 16 pieces on the board, not 8!

I can't speak for you alone, but the vast majority at your level simply say to themselves "The pawn goes to d4, the Bishop goes to f4, the pawn goes to e3, the Knight goes to f3, the pawn goes to h3 - Now let's see what Black did!"

They have no understanding of what they actually did with those moves.  One of the main themes of the London System is to have a strongpoint on e5.  Well, that strongpoint can't be held against the Modern Defense, and this is why even London gurus, like Lakdawala, point out that it is not a catch-all system, and should not be used against the Modern Defense.

But if all you did was take shortcuts, figuring by learning the London, you don't have to do anything until move 5 and can cut out a ton of theory, you are failing yourself!

Same thing goes for those that blindly play Nf3/g3/Bg2/O-O/d3/Nbd2/e4 against EVERYTHING, or c4/g3/Bg2/Nc3 against EVERYTHING.

The English Opening can be played properly by a 1800-1900 (while learning something from it). The rest I agree with.

👍👍👍

Introduction To The London System...

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/the-london-system

"1.c4 e6 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2? f5! 4.Nc3 Nf6 =

" 

 I play the English, but not in order to "cut on theory". In fact one doesn't "cut on theory" if he learns well the English! There are so many possible answers to 1.c4.

I simply like the positions that result from the English, and that's why I play it. 

What should have been done instead of 3.Bg2? 3.Nc3? 

ThrillerFan is the most worthless poster on the boards. He makes you spend time reading long posts, goes on bizarre tangents about things not being discussed at all and almost never gives any good advice. Even worse is that he has a constant "contrarian" thing where he tries to continually state things against what the usual advice is so gives you the exact opposite to the reality. Even you correctly saw and identified his poor quality lol but many beginners or novices take him seriously. I recommend just ignoring him.  

I think white has a very strong position, he definitely should win here. Unless White has an even faster attack (which he might) he should castle queenside and put the rooks down the h-file, the rook sacrifice Rxh7 may well become possible. Black is definitely in big trouble due to the semi-open h-file. White also has the good bishop and where black would usually have a fianchettoed bishop he has his queen out of position. 

For the London system- https://www.chessable.com/short-sweet-the-london-system/course/5774/

For Thrillerfan- here is a GM growing up playing the same system every time and winning- 

I couldn't agree more.

Agreed.

Thank you ThrillerFan. I only started looking at the London opening 2 weeks ago, so that is why it is new. It is not new because I as you describe am trying to cut back on what must be learned. I want to understand the London like I would any opening. I have 8+ chess books that are all 50+ years old and I was just googling for newer things that aren't mentioned in those books and the London was one I came across with some good documentation.  There was a lot more. It looked worthy of study. I would not claim to use the London all the time, but in order for me to learn its strengths and weaknesses, I have to play it, I can't just not play the opening and expect to know all its weaknesses. I hope to learn some more modern things that have occurred more recently than just the London. I am very grateful to the person that gave me these old books, some were fun to read, others were boring as cardboard.

Hey dudes. Thanks for the context uhohspaghettio.  I'm new to chess.com, so I appreciate the heads up. I wasn't expecting to get attacked in my very first post ever. I hope more people are nicer than that on here.

Cheers.

Some people like me are just normally grumpy on the forums. However, when actual discussions like yours come up, I try to help. Unfortunately, I have not played the London System and too low rated to give anything to help.

Have fun on the Chess.com forums!

Says a worthless good for nothing human being that doesn't understand chess at all.  Go take up Tic Tac Toe and STFU!