London System

If you play c4, as advised by some against d5 systems, then clearly you are not playing the London system. You are playing a Queen's Gambit. This is so fundamental that only a very strange person will miss it. Best advice is ... ignore the other advice! There are some very, very confused people.

One last point. If you have, say, Qb3 against Qb6 and your Q is forced to move, then swap Qs unless there is a real, tactical advantage to be gained from not doing so. Otherwise, why did you play Qb3 in the first place? Sometimes the capture ab is an advantage because of the open line. Sometimes it is a disadvantage. If it's going to be an advantage to the other player, don't play Qb3.

Thank you all for your helpful comments; I appreciate that!

I will look into some basics of the London and see if I can use it successfully in my own games. :)

If you play London, I would recommend to play Bf4 before Nf3. Then you confuse your opponent even more.

I was trying to answer your post like 11 hours ago lol but my pc totally went down. However, I am back now HA HA.

In the London System white usually develops their bishop outside of the pawn chain. The draw back of this is it leaves a weak pawn behind the b2 pawn. In chess they tell people to try and attack the weakness. So in a sense that is what black is trying to do here.

So I will explain why the below diagram is bad.

When black plays this c5 pawn break white has to be very careful in how he responds.

The mistakes or potiental mistakes I should say for white is he confused his moves. If white wants to have a pawn on c3 and e3 than he needs to delay his knight on f3(He needs to save the tempo/move to save his bacon.) An instead play something like Nd2 becuase it helps defend his weak b2 pawn from Qb6 moves.

If white instead wants his knight on f3 and pawn on e3 than he can't really play c3 any more he would either have to take on c5 with his d4 pawn or he would have to play Nc3. To defend his weak b2 pawn from the Qb6 move

So in this example whites mistake was confusing the 2 idea's. Which is a mistake that commonly happens to beginner. I fell for this problem before as well. Eventually with more practice and getting burned a few times you learn lol and fix the mistakes.

An the problem is it is not a huge mistake. The c3 is like a minor mistake not earth shattering yet the domino effect it has makes black position end up slightly better. Its like an inaccuracy a small dubious move. That screws up everything. An beginners even some intermidate players can fall victim to such a mistake.

So why is the position bad. Well well after white plays 5.c3  black response with 5...Qb6

5...Qb6  develops the queen and attacks the weakness(b2 pawn). How does white defend?

Well if white continues with

6.Qb3  defending the pawn.

The problem is both queens are starring at each other and neither side wants to be the one to capture the opponents queen. WHY? The reason why is becuase if 1 side captures the other side they will recapture with the A pawn opening their Rook file getting an active piece for the trade.

Neither side wants their opponent to get more active pieces. So they don't want to trade.

So what has happen so far. Black developed 1 piece with tempo on a weak pawn. Simple threat. White defended

Well now black puts more pressure. Black plays 6...c4 WHY?

6...c4 is a mult-purpose move.

1- He is trying to hit the white queen to provoke the white queen to take his queen. Black would love. Absolutely love white if he made that queen trade.

2- It gains space on the queen side and that is where black wants to play his pawns point to the queen side so going with blacks theme of playing on the queen side and expanding queen side it is good for black to play that c4 move.

So now white is left with a choice does he take the queens and help black develop his rook or does he retreat. In many cases white decides its not worth it to let black develop so easy. So they treat.

Now rememeber this is 1 threat only. Black is just hitting the weak b2 pawn so white has to still try and guard that pawn. So white plays the below move.

7.Qc2

Most white players would think its over now. The storm as passed. The problem is white is in the eye of the storm its coming back. An it comes back with a fury becuase black now has a tactic shot.

7...Bf5!!

What on earth thats a free bishop or is it? Well if white takes the bishop than blacks queen takes the b2 pawn and the rook on a1 is lost.

So it is a posion bishop.

So if the white queen can not take the bishop and still has to defend the b2 pawn. Where does that leave white?

Well white has to than play 8.Qc1.

Now just look at the visiual picture below.

Notice the red highlighted square that is the only problem. The only weakness that is causing all of this mess. One little b2 pawn.

Notice the yellow highlighted squares those are the 3 things black developed with all whites queen moves.

Notice the green highlights and arrows. Look how the white queen has just danced all over the board.

Qb3-Qc2-Qc1

This isn't dancing with the stars. WTF? This is chess you can't do those random queen moves. An let your opponent develop/gain tempos off you like that.

3 queen moves and all this time black is developing and gaining space which is all part of his master plan of queen side play.

The queen start off on d1 for crying out loud. If white wanted to go to c1 why didn't he just play 6.Qc1

An now your thinking Oh My Gosh what if the white queen played 6.Qc1! Would that help whites position?

What if white saw all of this in his mind. An played the move 6.Qc1 to stop all of blacks development activity. Surely this can not be bad.

Well it is bad. Its bad for a completely different reason though. You see I told you that c3 move is a positionally bad move. Before the queen moves were bad becuase it helped black develop with tempo. Now it is bad becuase whites queen/center is going to come under heavy fire.

The Pawn tension has not been "released" yet.

So now look at the below picture.

Do you see the problem?

Notice the Green arrows the black rook is going to go to c8 facing the white queen. An the c3 pawn is going to become pinned to the queen. Which means the d4 pawn is coming under attack. As well as the original weakness the b2 pawn.

Do you see how attacking 1 weakness causes huge headaches in a position. An usually thats how it goes down.

Notice the Yellow arrows and highlights The d4 pawn has 2 pieces + 1 pawn attacking it. An the Light square bishop is going to go to f5 stopping white from playing moves like Rb1 to help defend the b2 pawn as well. It is all just tumbling down.

These 2 lines I showed are bad becuase they give black simply plans but they are not losing right now thats the problem. White ends up slightly worse and you will have to try and fight yourself back from that slightly worse position. Which usually you don't want to have to do with the white pieces.

So the moves you do matter. Don't give yourself a headache lol play better moves. The below diagram are a few better moves.

Why this obsession with playing e3 before c3?

Why not?

e3 prepares the development of the f1 Bishop, c3 doesn't help in development.

That is hardly the point though because c3 is arguably more useful and it helps in the development of the Q. Maybe white would like to threaten f3 and e4 too. The London is so slow that there's nothing to be gained by hurrying e3, when c3 is far more useful. Surely?

The basic starting position of the London?
d4, c3 and Nf4.

Lol

Thought you'd love it. A sort of compromise. There's so much theory been given as correct and all the London is, is a defensive system for white or black, which began life as a system against fianchetto defences or attacks.
For white, the basic moves are c3, d4, Bf4 and Nf3. c3 is played so that dc can be safely played. The opening was originally a way that black can get a solid game against fianchetto openings. Very often, white has a bishop on g2 and would want to play c4. Black can take this pawn, since he has played c6, which is necessary if he's going to play Bf5.

It's so simple and there is no need to go into convulsions or convolutions.

So that is the London System optimised. Anybody want to discuss the London system in practice ?

Is it a proper compromise to let's say only play the London system if black does not respond with 1...d5 so I do not have to go into the annoying c5 line? And if black responds with 1...d5 then 2.c4? I find myself comfortable in playing QGA, QGD and Slav.

I played it about twice. Bronstein used it. I once stood next to Bronstein at a chess book stall and that is our claim to fame. We were both trying to read the same book on the QGA. I find it unispiring. I think I'm going to play a few blitz games with it and I'll report back.

You saw Bronstein, Octo ?

Wow!

My sister saw Tal, Botvinnik, Smyslov, Petrosian and Spassky all at once. She was a receptionist at the hotel where they stayed for a tournament. Apparently they were lovely, especially Tal.

(European Team Championship 1973. A fearsomely strong Soviet team where all the top six boards were future or ex World Champions (Karpov in addition to the above) and Efim Geller unable to claim a place higher than board seven.

Nice one Gil! ty :)

I wasn't saying that the Qc1 idea was good, I wanted to see some refutals of the idea.  Furthermore, let's take it one step further then.  What is your take on Qxb6?  I agree that we are discussing subpar lines, but I think that is important as well, in case you are ever defending against the London and your opponent plays these ideas.

I believe some people on this forum are wrong. However, I do not feel like being in an agruement today. So I will not mention any names.

I will just say the London System is nice